Trillian

[WorknMan]

Looks like Yahoo is playing the 'cat and mouse' game again with Trillian. Cerulean Studios just released a patch to make Trillian work again with Yahoo, but Yahoo says they're going to keep changing the protocol to make 3rd party clients incompatible. Didn't we just go through this a couple of months ago? I know it's not really the fault of the program, but using Trillian is starting to become more trouble than it's worth. And worst part about this is that the Yahoo client just keeps getting fatter and fatter with useless bloat. It seems to me that all of the IM clients (even the 3rd party ones like Trillian) are rather weak and basic compared to the features I've enjoyed on IRC now for years. Hell, I believe Virc had voice/video chat capabilities back in like 1997.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Thank GOD I don't use Yahoo.

I don't understand why Peer 2 Peer IM programs haven't EXPLODED in light of this crap. I don't care about server side buddy lists and crap.

Peer 2 peer would own ... faster, more reliable, and totally independant of ads, servers, etc.

[WorknMan]

Ya know, it's funny that some people were actually upset about this, like Yahoo owes them the right to connect for free with 3rd party software. Yahoo is providing a service, people. If they want to block you from using Trillian (or any other program for that matter), that's their right.

[Bryan 'KidHype' Smith]

Ya know, it's funny that some people were actually upset about this, like Yahoo owes them the right to connect for free with 3rd party software. Yahoo is providing a service, people. If they want to block you from using Trillian (or any other program for that matter), that's their right.

Totally agree with you there but what erks me is the excuses Yahoo are using versus the truth. Yahoo knows if people use Trillian or GAIM they lose ad revenue. Has nothing to do with SPIM or security issues.

I think its totally worth the upgrade hassles to continue to use trillian over having 4 instant messenger programs slowing down my machine because one gets choked up trying to hit a ad server.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Yeah, let's have a little truth and honesty here ...

Its 100% ad banner related. Nothing to do with security. Here is how it should run down ...

"Once again, we've blocked third party apps that use our network because instead of a one-time pay model or free lite version (like we should be doing) we've decided to futher bloat our client beyond words and "help you out" by making an ad-dependant version your ONLY choice. We're sorry we're boneheads, but this is what we've decided. It has nothing to do with security - we want our Oompa Loompa NOW. kthx"

[WorknMan]

Agree about the honesty part, except ...

"Once again, we've blocked third party apps that use our network because instead of a one-time pay model or free lite version (like we should be doing)

I don't think it's that simple. If you're providing a service (as Yahoo is) along with a product (the client), you would probably have to charge some sort of monthly fee like satellite radio does (but not as much, of course) in order to keep the service going. Charging people $20 a hit (or whatever) for a 'Lite' version, that money is probably going to dry up pretty quickly.

[Shane R. Monroe]

The problem is ... and I've said it 100 times ... People don't like to pay monthly service fees. Apparently some will (there are a lot of Tivo, XM Radio, and other users paying monthly fees out the arse).

I don't even like paying a monthly fee for cable TV.

People that choose Yahoo, it seems, are for the FLUFF features like webcams and other stuff I can't stand. Make a straight, free ad supported model with all the CRAP features off. Charge a respectable, perhaps YEARLY fee (which is basically what Trillian does) with a little flexibility. Major version numbers cost, minors are free. That's a livable model.

[WorknMan]

I am one who subscribes to XM radio (connected to my PC) and wouldn't trade it for anything .. piss on FM I'm even considering getting Sirius for my car. The difference between having satellite radio and regular FM is like the difference way back when between having 30-40 channels on standard cable and having hundreds with a dish. Plus, all the music channels (60 of them on Sirius) are commercial free.

Anyway, I think what IM service most people use is dictated by what their friends use. That includes me .. pretty much anyone I want to talk to online is on Yahoo, so that's what I use.

[Shane R. Monroe]

No offense, but who are your friends?

I have a lot of friends, and NO one uses Yahoo as their primary client.

The only CAVEAT to being the "family and friend tech head" is that I get to dictate what they use. 'You want me, I won't be on Yahoo ... I'll be on ICQ .. enjoy it now". If they want to be in communication with me, they will use email or find their way to my IM service. I stay connected to AIM and MSN at home because I used to have to do business on MSN (I could probably drop off that at home - no need to be on there anymore) and AIM is the only thing they let out of our work firewall, so I have to use that.

As for satellite radio, I'll pass. The billing model makes no sense to me. Don't tell me I have to pay $200 for a receiver AND pay your ass every month to use it. Just like with Tivo, when that service goes away, you have a $200 paperweight. This goes for games like Everquest too. Don't charge me $40 to buy a game that doesn't work AT ALL without paying a monthly fee for it. Commercial free music isn't worth it; I get now ... FOR FREE with my vehicle's MP3 player. What's more, I get HQ digital sound with music I WANT to hear. The only thing that could make me consider satellite radio is a change in the payment model or if Howard Stern goes there - I might be willing to check it out.

I might as well ask you to buy a special player for RetroGaming Radio, THEN charge you every month to listen to the show. Ludicrousy ...

Cable companies have that ONE thing right. You pay monthly, but they aren't billing you $300 for the cable box. If the cable company goes under, or you want to leave cable service - you give the box back; no harm no foul no cash out of pocket. THAT makes sense.

BTW, I don't care HOW many channels TV gets .. it will ALWAYS be the same ... 5 channels of content you give a rat's ass about and 45-495 channels you wouldn't watch on a bet. Hell I got like 10 Latino channels now - with more on the way ... Glad my cable dollars can provide content in a language I can't speak or listen to. Dish ain't no different, so don't try to tell me it isn't.

[WorknMan]

The only CAVEAT to being the "family and friend tech head" is that I get to dictate what they use. 'You want me, I won't be on Yahoo ... I'll be on ICQ .. enjoy it now".

Unfortunately, the people I talk to are as stubborn as you are I could hook up to the other services, but hardly anyone I know is on there, so what good is it? If most of your friends/family were on Yahoo, would you demand that they all switch to something else? To me, that would be like me demanding that my family (most of whom live in Georgia) all fly down to Texas if they want to see me because it is more convenient for me, rather than me just going up there where everybody else is.
So, why do they use Yahoo instead of something else? One person I know uses Yahoo because of the Launchcast thing that now integrates with the client (go figure). Another uses it to talk with chicks from the Yahoo personals. But the others use it because their friends use it as well. It's a vicious circle.

Cable companies have that ONE thing right. You pay monthly, but they aren't billing you $300 for the cable box. If the cable company goes under, or you want to leave cable service - you give the box back; no harm no foul no cash out of pocket. THAT makes sense.

That is certainly a vaid point. On the other hand, do you own a cell phone? If you couldn't get one for free, would you still buy one in order to use the service?
Even if I don't have to pay for the cable box (not sure if the same applies for satellite TV), they charge me an installation fee, which is almost as much as I paid for my XMPcr ($50). And I don't see this as being the same as a game that only works online - that is just one game. A better example would be paying for a console that let you play an assload of online games and charged you for the console + a monthly subscription for the games.

Commercial free music isn't worth it; I get now ... FOR FREE with my vehicle's MP3 player. What's more, I get HQ digital sound with music I WANT to hear.

I have it connected to my PC currently and use it for much more than music. I'll record a lot of the content on the talk channels and listen to it the next day at work. Plus, I get access to most of the news channels that are on cable. Another advantage I see to satellite radio over mp3 is that on XM, they have a very large playlist so I get exposure to a lot of bands that I've never heard of. I have about 1,500 mp3s and even with all of those, I get tired of listening to the same stuff over and over again. How would you suppose anyone expand their music collection if all they had to listen to was the collection of songs they already had? FM rarely plays stuff that I want to listen to, so that's not really an option. That would be like saying "Well, I've got all these TV shows already recorded, so who needs cable?"

The only thing that could make me consider satellite radio is a change in the payment model or if Howard Stern goes there - I might be willing to check it out.

They have stuff like Stern on Sirius, only it's uncensored That is another advantage over FM. XM has a channel that plays nothing but stand-up comedy.