Episode 06/28/2010 Now Available

[Shane R. Monroe]

Topics:

• Daughter Update
• E3 Impressions
• Toy Story 3 Whoring
• Galaga Card
• MonroeAPalooza
• iPhone vs Android
• YouTube vs Viacom
• Euthenize a Rat

[Tally]

I think Yahtzee put it best regarding the 3DS and Nintendo: This is pretty much how I feel regarding the whole motion controller deal!
Watch and Enjoy!
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...n/1838-E3-2010

[Makepool]

As a 'hardcore' gamer (whatever that means) I was initially really excited by the Wii and its motion controller because it meant the ability to create brand new games that couldn't be done any other way. I admit that since I have been very disappointed but that's more to do with how Nintendo operates than the concept of motion controllers.

I believe that there should be a wide spectrum of games starting from basic ones for casual gamers right up to really complex games for people like me. I believe in variety and I can even play and enjoy some of the casual games myself from time to time. The problem is Nintendo don't believe in variety and so 99% of Wii games are for casual gamers. Well that's nice but if like me you've graduated onto full size novels going back to pre-school books isn't that interesting anymore. Just because Nintendo got me all excited and let me down doesn't mean to say that the other two consoles will strand us in casual game hell too.

Remember I like variety so I'll still want to buy controller based games too since I don't infinite energy to be jumping around my living room constantly but the prospect of playing entirely new types of games on Kinnect really does excite me.

[Shane R. Monroe]

This started off as a direct quote, but ended up becoming a more sweeping message ... not all elements are intended as a direct reply to the poster.

The problem is Nintendo don't believe in variety and so 99% of Wii games are for casual gamers. Well that's nice but if like me you've graduated onto full size novels going back to pre-school books isn't that interesting anymore. Just because Nintendo got me all excited and let me down doesn't mean to say that the other two consoles will strand us in casual game hell too.

I think you're pointing the ill finger at the wrong people. NINTENDO isn't at fault for your problems. Blame the THIRD PARTY developers for making games you don't like. It seems EVERYONE from hardcore to casual LOVE what **NINTENDO** is putting out. I wouldn't call most of what **NINTENDO** puts out as "casual gaming". In fact, I would call MOST of what **NINTENDO** puts out as "core" gaming - the stuff people typically bitch that ONLY **NINTENDO** puts out - and that companies like Ubisoft and it's ilk don't put those games out.

Of course, anyione that actually puts any sort of effort into looking at Wii gaming will find PLENTY of third party games that fit the requirements. What's funny? Nobody seems to want to play them. Dead Space Extraction. Madworld. The list goes on and on. PLENTY of core gaming that doesn't required you to get up off your fat lazy ass and swing a virtual racket.

So, people bitch about Wii gaming ... companies respond. The bitchers ignore the games. They figure there is no market and go back to making Imagine: Babiez IVXXX.

Remember I like variety so I'll still want to buy controller based games too since I don't infinite energy to be jumping around my living room constantly but the prospect of playing entirely new types of games on Kinnect really does excite me.

Sorry man - that's the biggest hypocritical statement on the planet. Why don't you just profess you want high def graphics and forget the bullsh*t dissertation on motion controls? For Christ's sake, you say you want to sit on your ass - yet Kinect has admited flat out "We can't read you sitting down". So, if you want to play an arcade racer (at this point - maybe they will fix it), you'll be standing with your arms stretched out - HOLDING NOTHING steering. I hope all the people that bitch about ExciteTruck on the Wii are the FIRST to cry FOUL with this comes to pass.

I think the market and developers would be SO MUCH BETTER OFF if all the people bitching and complaining about the Wii would come forward and be honest and say:

"I want high def graphics - so it doesn't matter WHAT game you provide me on Wii - I'm going to piss on it."

Stop the facade about not liking motion controls, because the same people bitching about Wii are circle jerking for Move and Kinect. Stop talking about Wii not having any core games - because it's complete and utter bullsh*t. Get down to brass tax - you are graphics whores. The Wii will NEVER APPEASE YOU ... so please ... end the madness. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Then, the developers can stop wasting their time trying to provide you with quality core titles like Red Steel 2 that you won't buy and get back to making Carnival Games - since that's sold like 4M+ copies and you "hard core gamers" won't play anything that isn't 720p or higher regardless of how much fun it is.

[alexjlopez]

I think the market and developers would be SO MUCH BETTER OFF if all the people bitching and complaining about the Wii would come forward and be honest and say:

"I want high def graphics - so it doesn't matter WHAT game you provide me on Wii - I'm going to piss on it."

Stop the facade about not liking motion controls, because the same people bitching about Wii are circle jerking for Move and Kinect. Stop talking about Wii not having any core games - because it's complete and utter bullsh*t. Get down to brass tax - you are graphics whores. The Wii will NEVER APPEASE YOU ... so please ... end the madness. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Then, the developers can stop wasting their time trying to provide you with quality core titles like Red Steel 2 that you won't buy and get back to making Carnival Games - since that's sold like 4M+ copies and you "hard core gamers" won't play anything that isn't 720p or higher regardless of how much fun it is.

Very well put. People complaining about too many casual games on Wii is kind of like people complaining that there are too many Country music CD's being released. Don't like Country music? Don't buy it--there are plenty of alternatives. Same thing on Wii. Red Steel 2, Sin & Punishment 2, Monster Hunter Tri, Sakura Wars, Fragile Dreams, Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Trauma Team--all released within the last 90 days and none are aimed at a casual audience. And that's just off the top of my head.

The truth is, people who define themselves as "hardcore" are simple-minded people who'd take a bad FPS over a great game featuring a cartoon character. And as Shane puts it, if it's not in HD, it must be "crap" or "for casuals". It's a generation of gamers who are quite appropriately represented by an ass like Shia Labeouf.

[WorknMan]

Stop the facade about not liking motion controls, because the same people bitching about Wii are circle jerking for Move and Kinect.

I want to know where all of this circle jerking is going on. Because frankly, other than Dance Central, I haven't seen a whole lotta love for either Kinect or Move from hardcore gamers. People seem to favor Move over Kinect because (apparently) it is the most accurate out of all the 3 systems, but the hardcore crowd doesn't seem overly excited about either. In fact, I saw a few folks on Giantbomb forums talking about how this might be the last generation of gaming for them, thanks to motion control and the push toward 3D.

As I said before, unless these motion controls offer hardcore gamers a novel way to play the latest FPS/space marine shooter of the month, they're not going to give a sh!t.

[BJWanlund]

In fact, I saw a few folks on Giantbomb forums talking about how this might be the last generation of gaming for them, thanks to motion control and the push toward 3D.

Well, let me put it this way: I was considering getting a PS3 for purposes of just playing Blazblue online with people whom I knew and liked, but now, with Sony's hard pushing of Move and the extremely hard pushing of 3D with glasses, I can't really justify that right now.

Sony has turned me off of the PS3 again and again and again. First it was Sony's stupid decision to charge $600 for a PS3. Then it was Sony's decision that "Oh, the price is too high, let's drop it to $400" (which it really should have been to begin with IMO, but I digress). And this year is when Sony very much turned me off of many, many PS3-exclusive titles simply because of the 3D that should never be in certain games (such as with the Sly Cooper collection) or the Move. Yes, I know I can use real controllers instead of motion controllers, but seriously, no one should have to play games like SOCOM 4 with Move. That looks... painful at best.

BJ

[Makepool]

Last time I looked into any of this stuff in depth it was still called Natal so I didn't know it couldn't read players sitting down. I always did wonder if we were going to have to wait another 10 years to get to the level of precision Natal was implying early on. However, when I said "I'll still want to buy controller based games too since I don't infinite energy to be jumping around my living room constantly" I meant just that. A good old fashioned controller in my hand, not using Kinect sitting down. I don't understand how wanting both makes me a bad person. I'm trying to convey that like any medium once surpassed, for want of a better word, doesn't mean any previous medium is redundant in the same way film didn't do away with books.

As for being disappointed at how Nintendo operates I meant primarily concentrating on it's own IPs. I never played or liked Mario or Metroid so I'm not going to be interested in the 6 billionth instalment. They're also very stringent in their requirements as to who can possess a dev kit so fewer developers get in on the action. That obviously translates to fewer games. I'm not sure what Nintendo's marketing is like in other countries so I'm not going to comment on them but in the UK all I've ever seen them push are Mario, Wii Fit, Mario, Zelda and Mario so unless you're an old biddy or raised on Nintendo's stuff it fails to really excite.

[alexjlopez]

As for being disappointed at how Nintendo operates I meant primarily concentrating on it's own IPs. I never played or liked Mario or Metroid so I'm not going to be interested in the 6 billionth instalment. They're also very stringent in their requirements as to who can possess a dev kit so fewer developers get in on the action. That obviously translates to fewer games. I'm not sure what Nintendo's marketing is like in other countries so I'm not going to comment on them but in the UK all I've ever seen them push are Mario, Wii Fit, Mario, Zelda and Mario so unless you're an old biddy or raised on Nintendo's stuff it fails to really excite.

You're dissapointed because Nintendo concentrates on it's own IP's? Who's IP's should they concentrate on? That makes no sense whatsoever. It's up to third-parties to decide what games they choose to bring to the platform, and when "hardcore" gamers ignore great Wii exclusive games like Dead Space: Extraction, can you blame them for neglecting the needs of those gamers? I see this complaint all the time and it tells me that people really don't understand the difference between Nintendo publishing a game and Nintendo licensing a third party game for use on one of it's systems. Hit the WiiWare thread and you'll see what I mean, people blasting Nintendo for games they didn't make almost weekly.

Any established developer can get a development kit from Nintendo, so that whole thing is a myth. Instead of "difficult", they should admit they mean "expensive", as pretty much anyone with a taxpayer ID# (in the US) can buy a dev kit. If they handed out free kits to every garage developer, then the same crowd would complain about too much shovelware. It's always something. Name me one developer that is active on Xbox or Sony platforms that wants to develop on Nintendo systems but cannot because they can't get a dev kit.

And yeah, if Nintendo's IP's aren't your thing, that's completely reasonable and I don't expect you go for what they're selling. But when you try to group all veteran gamers under the "hardcore" flag and base it on your own personal tastes, I have to call bull**** hehe. None of this makes you a "bad person" as you put it, it's when you try and condemn an entire platform that you obviously only superficially understand that you become unreasonable. It's a common characteristic of a certain generation of gamers--that "the world revolves around me and all real gamers feel the way I do. if you don't agree, you're not a real gamer".

[Makepool]

I think you and Shane have both jumped on what I said about not slating motion controllers because people didn't like the Wii because of Nintendo's reluctance to court third party developers and shoved a whole host of words I've never said into my mouth. Perhaps the failure to properly communicate what I was trying to say was mine but you seem perilously close to being what you're trying to make out I am by saying if I don't agree with you that I must be 13 years old and not a real gamer.