Pimping - Your Thoughts

[blacklily8]

Hi, guys, sorry about the silly title, but I wanted to get your feedback on something that has been bothering me a lot. Basically, how do you get the word out about your projects, be it articles, a book, a game that you wrote, a YouTube video, a podcast--whatever you are working on that you want to share with other people. I know that there are many people in this boat--you have the passion to create, but want to know how to spread the word to other folks who may enjoy and share that passion. A lot of us have poured money and ungodly amounts of time into this stuff, and it's hurtful to see others put us down just for trying to spread the word.

Assuming you don't have a big budget to advertise or what not, and need to rely on word of mouth--how can you go about that in an inoffensive, ethical way? Is it okay, for instance, to plug your work in a forum post? Is it okay to try to get it picked up on major blogs? Is it okay to mention your work in related projects, such as YouTube videos or podcasts? Where do you draw the line?

I know people use the phrase "shameless self promotion" quite a bit, but I'm wondering what is so shameless about it. Or when should it be shameful? Personally, I hate being besieged by ads for stuff that has no relation to the topic at hand, such as Viagra. However, I am eager to learn what my friends and people like me are up to. I don't want someone working on a homebrew remake of Legacy of the Ancients to feel afraid to tell me about it for fear I may consider it spam. I'd rather hear about it and then get to decide for MYSELF to check it out, rather than having that decision made for me by someone else.

I'm not sure this is the best forum to discuss this topic, but I figured Shane and some of the rest of you have had to deal with this issue at some point. I'd love to hear your point of view. Thanks,

Matt

[Chris]

Hi, guys, sorry about the silly title, but I wanted to get your feedback on something that has been bothering me a lot. Basically, how do you get the word out about your projects, be it articles, a book, a game that you wrote, a YouTube video, a podcast--whatever you are working on that you want to share with other people. I know that there are many people in this boat--you have the passion to create, but want to know how to spread the word to other folks who may enjoy and share that passion. A lot of us have poured money and ungodly amounts of time into this stuff, and it's hurtful to see others put us down just for trying to spread the word.

Assuming you don't have a big budget to advertise or what not, and need to rely on word of mouth--how can you go about that in an inoffensive, ethical way? Is it okay, for instance, to plug your work in a forum post? Is it okay to try to get it picked up on major blogs? Is it okay to mention your work in related projects, such as YouTube videos or podcasts? Where do you draw the line?

I know people use the phrase "shameless self promotion" quite a bit, but I'm wondering what is so shameless about it. Or when should it be shameful? Personally, I hate being besieged by ads for stuff that has no relation to the topic at hand, such as Viagra. However, I am eager to learn what my friends and people like me are up to. I don't want someone working on a homebrew remake of Legacy of the Ancients to feel afraid to tell me about it for fear I may consider it spam. I'd rather hear about it and then get to decide for MYSELF to check it out, rather than having that decision made for me by someone else.

I'm not sure this is the best forum to discuss this topic, but I figured Shane and some of the rest of you have had to deal with this issue at some point. I'd love to hear your point of view. Thanks,

Matt

I think it's awful.

Before you go, make sure you check out my series of articles entitled "The Retro Machine". Links are below.

Can't get enough of me? Check out www.videomasterstv.com where you can see video of me doing reviews in the February, April, and May 2009 episodes. Lots of great stuff to come! Stay tuned!

But seriously, I think as long as you establish a presence somewhere and are not over-doing it, promoting things should be fine.

[Oedipus]

Ain't Easy.

[Shane R. Monroe]

You ask an excellent question. And I'll be honest - there really isn't a good answer.

You cannot just find a forum that relates to your project and go pimp your work on there as POSTS: 1 -- yet, is it worth your time (ROI) to sit there, open dialogue, establish a presence and THEN pimp the product? Sometimes, the answer is yes. Most of the time - it's no.

What about buying ad space? Right - the first thing anyone does on a website is block the ad banners - or treat them like the homeless and simply do not engage them. So THAT can't be the answer.

You can go word of mouth - and yeah, sometimes that takes a LOT of time. Hell, 10 years of RGR and I still didn't have the amount of audience I felt the show should have (then again, I boycotted podcasting - which is probably why). Passenger Seat Radio has been around a LONG time, and I have a regular audience of only about 300 people (fortunately, I'm ok with that number - it ain't for everyone). Dual Screen Radio? We have thousands of accesses a show (Again, I'm pleased as hell with the numbers, considering you can't kick a garbage can over and not have a Nintendo podcast crawl out of it).

There is something to be said about saturation. PSR is very niche -- I can see it NEVER getting a huge following. DSR? I can see that being huge - but SATURATION is what's holding it back. There are too goddamn many Nintendo podcasts to compete with. You take the market, divide it by potential listeners, do some weird multiplication variance - ickity ackity ook - that's your listener base. In our case, REGULARITY would get us more audience, but that number isn't as huge as it would seem. RGR did well because let's be honest - you could count retro gaming podcasts on two hands - and that gives you a very large audience to play to with a lot less division of listeners.

Viral promotion seems to be very effective -- if you can "pull it off" and if your topic is not so esoteric to keep your audience at a minimum. Alex is doing very well trafficwise using YouTube with WMR branded videos (and he's hooking us up too with DSR stuff). BUT -- that's ONLY because he stays on that like stink on sh*t - and our topic of product happens to be portraited VERY WELL through video.

The real question is - who do you want? Do you want a small, worthy audience, or do you want "mass numbers"? Viral, word of mouth campaigns work for the former - jumping on whatever goofy mass market bandwagon is the way to get the latter. Get on Twitter. Get on Facebook. Amass friends. Network. You'll get in front of a LOT of people - but you can't guarentee who you will target.

Finally, I've done some time with Google AdWords. For a BUSINESS, I can tell you right now - IT WORKS. The more popular your topic, though, the more you'll pay to get results. However, you get "warm leads" vice cold ones. And like I said - I have seen it work WONDERS for traffic and sales in a couple of cases. Best thing to do is - make an account, see what your keywords will cost you and find a budget you can live with - try it out for a month. See if it works.

I know this isn't an answer - more of "why there is not a good answer", but hopefully it will help somewhat.

[Solarpolitiks]

Lots of good info there Shane. It will probably help me too with my podcast. So far the most I have done is just stuck oinks in my Sigs on various forums. I even got the guy on DSdatabase.org to host my podcast for me. It really is tough to kind of advertise something. Luckily I started after I was already established with some forums so it was fine to make one thread with my podcast and just update it.

[alexjlopez]

Regarding articles and books, etc., one idea would be to follow what Nintendo has been doing and create completely new market share.

As an example, you'd be surprised how little video game related content there is at the Kindle store. Surprising, since a large portion of Kindle users are "gadget" enthusiasts who are likely interested in video games as well.

Offering a free chapter of a book on Kindle can lead to a sale of the full book even if the full book is only available in print form. There's even a service for making blogs available on Kindle, for free or at a subscription cost. Another good way of getting an article in front of an audience that is still under served in terms of gaming related content.

As far as the video thing goes, YouTube has worked out great. Wii and DS game trailers with the WMR and DSR logos appeared on everything from personal blogs to major sites like Wired.com the week of E3. Sites from all over the world--Italy, Germany, Brazil, Spain, etc. have embeded our videos onto their sites as well. Not a bad way to get a logo out in front of a ton of people. The viral way in which you get linked from site to site really is amazing.

[Womp]

I don't even know why Alex pimp's WMR anymore, from what I understand he retired from doing it to practice his golf swing.

[alexjlopez]

I don't even know why Alex pimp's WMR anymore, from what I understand he retired from doing it to practice his golf swing.

LOL--c'mon man, you're going to get Cyberfox on my case again hehehe.

[blacklily8]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I brought it up was that some folks have been harassing Bill about posting about free book excerpts over at Digitpress forums. I mean, come on, is this really called for:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...=1#post1569714

I don't know if those guys are prominent there or just stray cats, but it is pretty mean-spirited in my opinion.

I also noticed that a few people have been angered over my mentioning of D&D and VG in my YouTube videos. I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I am personally turned off by advertising, particularly for products that I have no interest in purchasing. I stopped watching TV altogether just because of that; my annoyance at being constantly interrupted finally outweighed my enjoyment of the programs and I stopped watching. Of course, it helped when I discovered the many ways of watching these programs on my computer ad-free.

On the other hand, I'm fine with minimal advertising that pertains to the products. For instance, if I'm on Amazon searching for a game or book, I don't mind at all that it mentions similar products or tells me what other people bought. I actually like that. I also don't mind it when people come to AA and post about their latest projects. I just don't see how anyone is hurt when someone comes to our site and posts about a YouTube review they made, or a new game they're working on, or even some old games or equipment they are selling. I don't get why that is offensive. To me, learning about stuff like this is one of the main reasons we bother with forums or blogs in the first place.

I kind of look at it this way - I didn't buy a camera, editing software, and all that just to the world a public good. For one thing, I don't think my videos are that important, and secondly, it's not like I have any kind of exclusives. Anyone can record videos of their favorite games, slap on some commentary, and put it up on YouTube. My point is that I don't understand why people have any reason to complain about the quality of these videos or any "pimping" that might be done. Heck, the time it takes to complain could have been spent finding another video to watch. I guess I just don't understand the mentality. From where I'm standing, it makes sense for me to at least mention the books we wrote, just because (a) they establish my credibility and (b) somebody might actually want to buy these books, which benefits both of us. In a strange way, the internet twists the old "beggars can't be choosers" around, because they're not really beggars. The "beggars" are in a twisted way the same people who make all this stuff and try to give it away--we have to beg for attention! That's pretty sick.

I'm tempted just to shrug and say, well, people can be dicks and there are lots of dicks out there. Thick skin and all that. On the other hand, I always wonder if people have a point. Do they or do they not?

p.s. Sorry if this is bordering on incoherent. The whole thing has gotten me really upset.