Wii Minute Radio - July 2008 E3 Special Show is here!

[alexjlopez]

I completely agree with this, though it's more an indictment of 3rd parties than Nintendo themselves. 3rd parties have completely confused the casual market with the kids market. They're different. They want different things, and the games require different asthetics. See also: Boom Blox's poor sales. "Casual" gamers are generally adults, they don't visit gaming sites, and whatever games they buy are based off of TV ads, box art, or perhaps word of mouth. Having big-headed, cartoony characters will turn off these consumers. I see Nintendo as a bit more Disney- or Pixar-esque. For lack of a better description, they're able to make cartoony stuff that appeals to all ages. Whether it's style, nostalgia, or quality of games, they can make stuff that is kid-friendly, but doesn't turn off adults.

The "kiddie" thing when it comes to Nintendo is more of a cultural difference between the Japanese and the US, and my guess is it's not going away anytime soon.

Animated films (anime) and graphic novels (manga) are enjoyed by people of all ages in Japan, as one example. In the US we think of them as cartoons and comic books--"kiddie" stuff. Another example I'd use is the movie ratings system. If someone were to tell you they just came from seeing a rated "G" movie, you'd wonder if they had taken their kid to see the latest Disney film or something, when in reality "G" is for general audiences and is intended to categorize the types of movies everyone can enjoy.

But here in the good 'ole US of A, if there is no sex and violence, we leave it for the kids hehe.

Nintendo's creative endeavors have always catered to the Japanese with the hope the North American and European consumers will find the games interesting as well--it will never happen the other way around.

As for third parties--the "adult" games tend to be simulation games rather than amusement games, and those generally work better on the graphics oriented systems.

[WorknMan]

Another example I'd use is the movie ratings system. If someone were to tell you they just came from seeing a rated "G" movie, you'd wonder if they had taken their kid to see the latest Disney film or something, when in reality "G" is for general audiences and is intended to categorize the types of movies everyone can enjoy.

Yeah, in theory. But in practice, G-rated movies are primarily geared towards children. I have seen some Japanese anime, and I doubt much of it would qualify for the G-rating. Hell, a lot of it would probably be PG-13. That's a far cry from the Disney cartoons I have seen in the US.

But here in the good 'ole US of A, if there is no sex and violence, we leave it for the kids hehe.

My favorite movie is The Truman Show, and there's no sex or violence anywhere in it, yet it's certainly not a kiddie movie. See, there really IS a middle ground between the G-rated stuff and the hard R torture porn, a concept that most Nintendo fanboys don't seem to grasp. As far as they're concerned, if it doesn't appeal to my 5yo nephew, then it obviously has to be a violent, M-rated game.

[alexjlopez]

My favorite movie is The Truman Show, and there's no sex or violence anywhere in it, yet it's certainly not a kiddie movie. See, there really IS a middle ground between the G-rated stuff and the hard R torture porn, a concept that most Nintendo fanboys don't seem to grasp. As far as they're concerned, if it doesn't appeal to my 5yo nephew, then it obviously has to be a violent, M-rated game.

Yeah, the movie comparison isn't a perfect one--I loved The Truman Show, but I'm not sure something like that would translate over to a video game.

I look at it this way: take a game like chess. If I were to create a chess game for Wii, I'd have a lot of choices even if I were to limit myself from fiddling with the actual game mechanics. I could use the traditional looking "wooden" chess pieces, but that might be a little bland. So let's say I decide to create animated chess pieces that would actually battle it out in 3-d animated combat during each move (without changing the core game dynamics). I could make the pieces look like modern day soldiers, space marines, perhaps I could make them fantasy (swords and sorcerers) inspired. These might appeal to the "grown up" gamers who would be wowed by the cool factor of watching the combat, whether it's violent or not.

Now, take that same game of chess and concept of animated pieces and use a "penguins versus flamingos" theme. Suddenly, that fantastic chess experience is dismissed by "adult" gamers because they are turned off by the penguins and the flamingos that are clearly indented for kids.

That's how I feel about Boom Blox--the cartoon-kiddie "skin" that is used is really irrelevant to the gameplay, but it makes the game approachable. Think of Polarium for DS--they decided to pass on the fluff and went with a straight forward look, hoping that pure gameplay would carry the title. Instead, it looked bland and even complicated to some people.

[WorknMan]

Now, take that same game of chess and concept of animated pieces and use a "penguins versus flamingos" theme. Suddenly, that fantastic chess experience is dismissed by "adult" gamers because they are turned off by the penguins and the flamingos that are clearly indented for kids.

You speak like that would be a good thing :P To me, taking a game like this and 'toddler-izing' it is like those bone-headed developers who take a perfectly functional application and slap some ugly-ass skin on top of it (*cough* Opera *cough*) just so they can appeal to Generation iPod. Yeah, it's very irksome.
The most you can hope for is an option to change it to a skin you can actually live with, but in the case of games, there's rarely (if ever) such an option. And to make matters worse, not only do they change the visuals in games, but they also change the audio. So it's like using an application with an ugly-ass skin that makes god-awful noise on top of that. True, it doesn't change the gameplay (unless it's Meteos), but it DOES change the GAME.

Of course, it is important to know that I don't have kids, don't like kids, and find them to be exceptionally annoying. So I guess that somewhat alters my perception of all things 'kiddie'

That's how I feel about Boom Blox--the cartoon-kiddie "skin" that is used is really irrelevant to the gameplay, but it makes the game approachable. Think of Polarium for DS--they decided to pass on the fluff and went with a straight forward look, hoping that pure gameplay would carry the title. Instead, it looked bland and even complicated to some people.

Man, I think Polarium is a bad example... it was one of my favorite games on the DS. And I'm not just saying that here, as I've said it in other threads as well! In the case of Boom Blox, I think they did an ok job with the kiddie presentation. I mean it's there, but it's not over the top and in your face. And when a puzzle has you frustrated, pegging those little bastards in the background is immensely satifying

[BydoEmpire]

That's how I feel about Boom Blox--the cartoon-kiddie "skin" that is used is really irrelevant to the gameplay, but it makes the game approachable.

Except that they didn't make it approachable. They made it such a young-looking game that they turned off a huge potential audience - the casual gamer audience, which is almost entirely adults. Adults who don't already know the game will take one look at the box, or see the ad on TV and assume it's not a game for them. Core gamers might know better, but not casual gamers. Meteos, Columns, Tetris - all the great, classic puzzle games have art direction that doesn't turn off big chunks of their potential audience. And those games don't look bland at all.

Also, I like the little stories in Boom Blox. I'm not a fan of the dull, pastely color palatte, but I don't mind the cutsey characters at all. I find them kind of charming. It's not that I personally don't like the game, I do, but I completley understand why it's sold so poorly (of course it could continue to sell slow and steady). The art direction is definitely one factor.

[Nicko68]

- I think we can officially state that the Wii has enough goddamn controller accessories already.

Agreed!

Now, if you want everything, you need the Wiimote - $40, Nunchuk - $25, MotionPlus - we'll say $10 to be optimistic.

That's $75 for a single controller setup. Ridiculous.

[Nicko68]

I completely agree with this, though it's more an indictment of 3rd parties than Nintendo themselves. 3rd parties have completely confused the casual market with the kids market. They're different. They want different things, and the games require different asthetics. See also: Boom Blox's poor sales. "Casual" gamers are generally adults, they don't visit gaming sites, and whatever games they buy are based off of TV ads, box art, or perhaps word of mouth. Having big-headed, cartoony characters will turn off these consumers.

So will a $50 price point, just because Steven Spielberg's name is on the cover. I probably would have passed up this excellent game were it not for being talked about on Monroeworld.

[TechMaster]

So will a $50 price point, just because Steven Spielberg's name is on the cover. I probably would have passed up this excellent game were it not for being talked about on Monroeworld.

Funny thing is, it's probably 'because' Spielberg's name is on it that it is $50. Even then, I here Spielberg but I don't really associate it with gaming, so I'm still not ready to shell out $50.
As soon as it drops in price I will pick it up. But I can't justify the $50 for some reason.