PSP square button woes - DEAL WITH IT!

[kittendaddy]

The problem and the response are just jaw-dropping. Someone shouldn't have let the engineers near the press, sheesh.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01/24/news_6116985.html

[Darksol]

There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to.

Guess what. I don't have to adapt to anything. I will return the unit as defective and go on my merry way. There is no good engineering reason for why some buttons should be less responsive than others. Basically what you're saying is that developers shouldn't consider using the square button anymore in their games. Great answer!

[kittendaddy]

Here are some more gems:

This is something that we've created, and this is our specification. There was a clear purpose to it, and it wasn't a mistake.

I believe we made the most beautiful thing in the world. Nobody would criticize a renowned architect's blueprint that the position of a gate is wrong. It's the same as that.
What if the gate didn't open when a bear tried to chase you through it, though? That's a better analogy for a game system button not working.

That sort of arrogance is just.. man. I've heard this sort of thing from developers in the past (I'm a sometimes UI designer at my company). It's scary that someone who could think that way was let within a million miles of the design of the unit, or any piece of hardware or software, but it happens all the time every day.

Just not out in broad daylight.

[Flare]

So that's it... they are not defective and that's how it's gonna be with the PSP... Nintendo must be laughing their ass off at these guys. I thought they were gonna give them at least a little battle.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Bryan would have had a field day with this.

That's too f*cking funny.

[JamesJoell]

I for one will be hoping this affects PSP's sales big time. Not that I hate Sony, it would be bad for the world of video gaming for it to win this war.

[Flare]

I for one will be hoping this affects PSP's sales big time. Not that I hate Sony, it would be bad for the world of video gaming for it to win this war.
Yeah I agree, because they have this idea of just porting PS2 (or PS3) titles as washed-out titles into the PSP... that not good at all. New ways of gaming is what we need.

[sci]

Since I dont want to create another thread about the sales charts, here at this week's hardware sales number in japan.



PSP：66,000（628k）
PS2：52,000
DS：47,000（1505k）
GBA SP：19,000
GC：4,000
GBA：600
XB：400

Indeed Nintendo must be laughing their ass off.

[Flare]

But isn't the PSP more expensive than the DS?
Why do 66,000 pieces of the PSP equal 628K while 47,000 pieces of the DS equal 1505K?


PSP：66,000（628k）
DS：47,000（1505k）

Unless I understood the chart wrong.

[Chewchilla]

Kutaragi needs to head back to the Jedi Academy and brush-up on his "Mind Trick" skills.

"There is nothing wrong with the Square button....The PSP has a great battery life....The discs only fly out of the system when it is in Frisbee mode...The Nintendo DS is NOT the portable system you are looking for - move along."

[Bill_Loguidice]

But isn't the PSP more expensive than the DS?
Why do 66,000 pieces of the PSP equal 628K while 47,000 pieces of the DS equal 1505K?

Unless I understood the chart wrong.

Those are year-to-date total sales, not revenue.

[Oedipus]

Kutaragi needs to head back to the Jedi Academy and brush-up on his "Mind Trick" skills.

"There is nothing wrong with the Square button....The PSP has a great battery life....The discs only fly out of the system when it is in Frisbee mode...The Nintendo DS is NOT the portable system you are looking for - move along."

LOL too funny. :)

[Galaga will never die]

Someone shouldn't have let the engineers near the press, sheesh.

Except it's the President of Sony Computer Entertainment who's speaking. He's the one who heads all the press conferences. I guess that makes the comments even more hard to swallow.

Course, I'll still have my PSP on launch day so I can play Galaga 2005 (http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050114/museum09.jpg) on it. Hopefully it won't use the Square button.

[Darksol]

Thats the problem. Why do I want to buy a device where a piece of the controller doesn't work ? Digital Messiah said that there was one side of their controller which did not function right when you moved to it ( bottom left ) I believe. Buying shoddy software is one thing, buying shoddy hardware is where I draw the line . Unfortunately I already broke it since I own a VIA motherboard in one of my machines, but oh well. At least Digital Messiah was honest about it up front.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Except it's the President of Sony Computer Entertainment who's speaking. He's the one who heads all the press conferences. I guess that makes the comments even more hard to swallow.

Course, I'll still have my PSP on launch day so I can play Galaga 2005 (http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050114/museum09.jpg) on it. Hopefully it won't use the Square button.

You'd pay $200 for Galaga? THAT is love.

[Flare]

You'd pay $200 for Galaga? THAT is love.
Better pay $20.00 for Warblade
http://www.warblade.as

But I believe any self-respected Galaga fan has already played it.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Warblade is the shiznitz for sure.

[kittendaddy]

Except it's the President of Sony Computer Entertainment who's speaking. He's the one who heads all the press conferences. I guess that makes the comments even more hard to swallow.
Yeah, I re-read that later and it does make it even more unbelievable. Though I think it's more common for the technophiles to climb the corporate ladder at Japanese tech companies, so maybe he was a developer in a previous life.

Still.. wow.

I for one am not going within a million miles of the thing until I hear they've nailed this problem. A game system sans one button (x and square are the two most commonly used PS2 buttons) is useless, imo.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Let's say that Nintendo's touch screen was only HALF responsive. Sometimes if you draw a line, it misses resolution...

Yeah, that would be the END .. but PSP is gonna let it fly ... ghey

[Demolition Man]

Sadly Generation Gimmie won't care about that Shane. They just want the damn convergence... nevermind if it all works RIGHT. I mean... that's just crazy talk. Things to do exactly what its supposed to do? Naw... that's too much effort there.

[Keith_N]

Just want to say that Sony made faulty products in the past and these systems still became a success:

PSX - faulty laser for reading CD, CD-rom overheating beats the Saturn

PS2 - Memory cards allow regionless DVD player, beats the Dreamcast, Xbox and Gamecube

PSP - faulty square button, shooting discs Will it beat DS, or Gizmondo?

[Danny]

Thanks for imforming us about Warblade Flare...

I played the demo and imdedatly brought the full verson, now I'm paitently awaiting for that e-mail allowing me to download the full product lol

[Flare]

Thanks for imforming us about Warblade Flare...

I played the demo and imdedatly brought the full verson, now I'm paitently awaiting for that e-mail allowing me to download the full product lol
Warblade is the PC port of Deluxe Galaga for the Amiga.

I have only played DG emulated and Shane always says it's nothing like playing it on the real Amiga... I wonder how can it look any better? It looks and sounds excellent in WinUAE.

[jamcat]

Who cares about the square button. It's a MINOR issue. No need to get your panties in a knot over it. I'm sure whatever games will have button configuration options that will let you work around it. So again, who cares. I'll take a less sensitive button over a gimmick DS touch screen any day.

[yuckymucky]

Who cares about the square button. It's a MINOR issue. No need to get your panties in a knot over it. I'm sure whatever games will have button configuration options that will let you work around it. So again, who cares. I'll take a less sensitive button over a gimmick DS touch screen any day.

And the voice of reason chimes in. Do you perhaps work for Sony?....

[Darksol]

Who cares about the square button. It's a MINOR issue. No need to get your panties in a knot over it. I'm sure whatever games will have button configuration options that will let you work around it. So again, who cares. I'll take a less sensitive button over a gimmick DS touch screen any day.

How do you know its a minor issue ? Do you have a PSP ? Do you know people who do ? I bet no to all of those.

[Galaga will never die]

Photos (http://www.gamesarefun.com/consoles/psp/square.jpg) of the Square button offset are now online

[Dragon57]

Wow, coming from a 3D Cad designer, I can't believe Engineering let this one pass. This is the kind of thing that will get you fired in other firms. Arrogance or stupidity? It is hard to say at this point, although the quote above seems to say Arrogance with a capital A. It could just be covering up a flaw that shouldn't have seen the light of day. It does happen, but from a firm as big as Sony, I don't think so. I have to believe somewhere there sits a designer hanging his head in shame because he let someone tell him to pass this crappy design.

[Nectar]

Who cares about the square button. It's a MINOR issue. No need to get your panties in a knot over it. I'm sure whatever games will have button configuration options that will let you work around it. So again, who cares. I'll take a less sensitive button over a gimmick DS touch screen any day.

What about fighting games? They make use of every button so there's really no work around for them (unless you don't mind losing for the umteemth time because your combo didn't finish). Music and Rhythm games will also be rendered unplayable by this deficiency.

Of course, someone will say "Who cares about those kind of games?". Well, a lot of people obviously. It would really suck having an uber-powered handheld that can't even handle a genre as common as the fighting game.

[TripHamer]

So they went for looks over it's ability to function correctly? That's kinda stupid. I guess that they thought that no one would notice.

I'm guessing that they will fix it for the US version. That's when they usually fix their flaws. Just like the PS2 and the DVD driver issues (or whatever it was).

I wouldn't even consider buying one until they do.

[TripHamer]

Here's a thought,

Not that I know much about the PSP, but doesn't it have a memory card slot so that you could load up movies and such to play.

I'm guessing that it would also be possible for someone to write software that would allow you to run programs from the memory card. Thereby making it possible for homebrew games and emulators to be run.

That would make it worth buying one. I'm sure that someone will figure it out.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Oh, like I said - the first handheld that has perfect C64/Amiga emulation wins - hands down.

But Sony has made it very clear that EVERYTHING is locked down hard. There will be no homebrew stuff running here.

[DaMenace]

Who cares about the square button. It's a MINOR issue. No need to get your panties in a knot over it. I'm sure whatever games will have button configuration options that will let you work around it. So again, who cares. I'll take a less sensitive button over a gimmick DS touch screen any day.

Dude, at least the touch screen works and is responsive as contrasted to the PSP square button! The square button isn't the only problem the PSP has, what about the screen having dust, dirt, or air bubbles inside it FROM OUT OF THE BOX? Or how about how it just ejects games out of the thing as your playing it? How would you like it if your Atari 2600 suddenly shot the cartridge out of the thing across the room?
Of course you've already made it clear how prejudiced against Nintendo you are over previous posts so I'm not sure if any of this is making sense to you...


Sadly Generation Gimmie won't care about that Shane. They just want the damn convergence... nevermind if it all works RIGHT. I mean... that's just crazy talk. Things to do exactly what its supposed to do? Naw... that's too much effort there.

I have to disagree somewhat with you there as my counterpoint would be that you need only to look at how many times people return things nowadays that they consider broken back to Walmart.. I bet once they've had enough of the PSP problems they'll finally just return it one more time and get the DS instead..

[DaMenace]

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4263

Yep looks like I was right, there's a trend starting.. Even the original Gamespot article notes how many psps are being returned... 5,000 now according to GAF...
Now lets figure out the math here with the sales chart...



PSP:66,000(628k)
PS2:52,000
DS:47,000(1505k)
GBA SP:19,000
GC:4,000
GBA:600
XB:400


66,000 - 5,000 = 61,000 and I bet more each day are getting returned.....
Question is how many(if any) DSes are being returned?

[TripHamer]

Oh, like I said - the first handheld that has perfect C64/Amiga emulation wins - hands down.

But Sony has made it very clear that EVERYTHING is locked down hard. There will be no homebrew stuff running here.


That's what they said about the Xbox. My thinking is that if you could load movies and such into memory from the memory card you could load programs in also and run them. All you would need is for someone to write the software that boots off of a cd and allows you to load and run programs into memory.

Any security that man can make, man can also break. It's just a matter of discovering how. If that weren't true, we wouldn't need newer copy protections all the time.

Just a thought.

[yuckymucky]

There is a difference between the two though. With the Xbox you don't have to buy anything to defeat copy protection. You can get a modchip for $30ish or you can use the software hack.

With the PSP you have to get a memory card and one the size that will hold movies on it is still damn expensive. You get 10gb with the Xbox in the machine, just a 1gb memory stick is $150 from Sony.

[TripHamer]

I don't consider the cost a big deal and it has nothing to do with it being able to run homebrew stuff or not.

As long as it does what I want.

[Yodaporn]

Anyone else see where they could have moved all the buttons about a centimeter to the right, and avoided this fieasco?

[GodMedia]

Question is how many(if any) DSes are being returned?

I don't know of any numbers, but I've heard a good amount of complaints about dead pixels on the DS. The day I bought mine, a guy was there who claimed that it was his third time exchanging units because of dead pixels.

Does anyone know about people returning DSs over this issue?

[Galaga will never die]

Early run Platinum GBA SPs also had a high defect rate for tiny reflective glass shards trapped inside the screen during manufacturing.

[Shane R. Monroe]

I don't know of any numbers, but I've heard a good amount of complaints about dead pixels on the DS. The day I bought mine, a guy was there who claimed that it was his third time exchanging units because of dead pixels.

Does anyone know about people returning DSs over this issue?

There are two in the house - both were perfect out of the box.

Only ONE person I know personally had problems with a dead pixel.

[GodMedia]

There are two in the house - both were perfect out of the box.

Only ONE person I know personally had problems with a dead pixel.

Mine was in perfect shape, too. I did see some postings around the net complaining about this though. That's why I'm wondering if anyone knows if it is really that common a problem as I have heard no other complaints of any kind about the DS from a manufacturing point of view.

[Bill_Loguidice]

I have had a couple of dead pixels on my GBA SP since getting it. I hear the same comments about the DS. The best thing to do is if you buy one, look for any problems with the screen, and if there are any, bring it back! Dead pixels are just a fact of life, affecting everything from TV's to monitors to LCD's. The key is noticing any while there's still time to bring the device back.

[kinglumby]

Dead pixels are seen with any TFT / LCD device. Just read the warranty on any laptop and you'll see that they don't cover for one or two "dead" pixels because its part of the accepted manufacturing process. As long as it's only a couple of pixels then the monitor is considered fine for sale. As I understand it Nintendo put out the following press statement:

"With a small number of Nintendo DS screens, one or two dots on the screen may appear to be "stuck" on a particular color, such as white or red. This effect is caused when a particular pixel (the dots that make up the screen) is not working properly, even with the high quality standards set by LCD manufacturers. You will find this situation is common in many LCD devices, (PC monitors, televisions, cell phones, etc.).
We suggest that you use your system for a few weeks to determine whether this interferes with your enjoyment of game play. If, after using your system for awhile, you feel that this tiny dot is too distracting, the Nintendo DS does carry a one-year warranty. We are happy to inspect and, if necessary, fix your system at no charge within the warranty period."

Now to me that sounds a little nicer than "you'll just have to put up with it" which in fact that are probably entitled to do.

As for the buttons why not just rotate the whole configuration 45° and then none of the buttons would be near the screen. Oh and does that mean that the right arrow button which is in the same postion but on the other side of the screen have the same problem?

[Shane R. Monroe]

Hey, be happy ... Nintendo (and Sony too, presumably) will actually repair these free of charge. Many monitor companies won't deal with it until its like "gross" dead pixels.

Still, as Bill says; catch them early, get in on the STORE return vice manufacturer support.

if you're REALLY worried - get it from Walmart or someplace that will take back anything anytime for any reason.

[GodMedia]

I brought up the dead pixels issue in respone to DaMenace's question about returned DSs. Again, I have no numbers, but I was aware that some were being returned because of dead pixels.

I'm really happy with my DS as a machine (not too thrilled with much of the software for it, though). I have had no technical problems with it, and both my wife and I have enjoyed a great many hours of play. I do suggest some screen protectors, particularly for the touch screen (ever see someone's PDA after not using those, there is actually a rubbed-out patch on my dad's PDA from playing solitaire :eek: ). But, the construction and operation of this machine are excellent.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Good point ... both my units here at the house have lower screen protectors. They don't adversely effect the sensativity or looks so ... no reason not to invest the $5.

[Flare]

Good point ... both my units here at the house have lower screen protectors. They don't adversely effect the sensativity or looks so ... no reason not to invest the $5.
May I suggest Fellowes WriteRight Screen Protectors, they are $4.99

[GodMedia]

May I suggest Fellowes WriteRight Screen Protectors, they are $4.99

I use those, and I also sometimes modify the screen protectors I have for my PDA to fit the DS screen. As a matter of fact, a regular iPaq-sized screen saver works great on the upper screen of the DS as well as on the screen of original GBAs.

[Flare]

Thanks for imforming us about Warblade Flare...

I played the demo and imdedatly brought the full verson, now I'm paitently awaiting for that e-mail allowing me to download the full product lol
I was playing Warblade last night, made it to level 201. Nothing compares to the feeling of having like 20,000 in money, then see a "xC" powerup descend to you to double your money... sweet....

[Shane R. Monroe]

Warblade owns if you didn't grow up with Deluxe Galaga.

It took me a LONG LONG time to figure out what was wrong with Warblade. And its the same problem as every other classic game that gets ported to a PC; the resolution is too high and it adversely changes the dynamics of the game.

I know, it sounds weird - but despite that Warblade and DG are damn near identical .. the screen res really changes the game play.

Let me explain why.

When you are running in 320x240 - the distance between you and the enemy is a LOT shorter than when running in 640x480 - and CERTAINLY much shorter than if you're in a resolution ABOVE that. So if you run at 800x600 for Warblade, you're talking about almost 3 times the distance:

- Between the enemy and you (which means you have MUCH MORE reaction time as the bug decends)
- Between the enemy and your bullet (which means its LONGER between shots and it totally throws the timing off)
- Between the enemy bullet and you (which means you have MUCH more reaction time to dodge it).
- Distances from other objects (like meteors) are affected too.

These factors make the game 'feel' different enough that Warblade, while leet for a PC shooter - isn't DG. It makes playing Warblade a comparative experience that falls short from the original. The timing is wrong. The "feel" is wrong. If you have no long term basis for comparison - Warblade is the shiznitz. If you grew up on DG, then Warblade "feels funny".

[batwinky]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/02/22/news_6118930.html

sony is fixing the problem that wasn't a problem

does my best chury layd voice "now isn't that special"

[Flare]

Warblade owns if you didn't grow up with Deluxe Galaga.

It took me a LONG LONG time to figure out what was wrong with Warblade. And its the same problem as every other classic game that gets ported to a PC; the resolution is too high and it adversely changes the dynamics of the game.

I completely agree with you. I'd been playing DG for a long time (emulated) before I tried Warblade and that's exactly the difference.

In DG, the powerups fall faster and since the resolution is lower, you time your shots differently than in Warblade.

Also the money thief is very easy to destroy even with low weapons, and the laser blaster attacks very differently.

But both are excellent games without a doubt. Edgar Vigdal deserves all the praise.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Oh ABSOLUTELY ... Edgar is THE MAN. The product is leet. Its just a shame we who were there at the beginning can't benefit proper from progress.

What's really funny is ... Deluxe Galaga emulated feels different than playing on the real thing! I occassionally drag the CD32 into the house and put DG up on the Wega using the good ol' CD32 controller - and it even feels differently than the emu version.

Very curious.

[Flare]

What's really funny is ... Deluxe Galaga emulated feels different than playing on the real thing!
Yeah! I remember you mentioning this in a couple of shows... and I can't fully understand how can it feel different? Could it be the controls or the framerate? If it's emulated, the gameplay should be the same no? I don't think I'll ever play it in an actual CD32, so I maybe I'll never experience it for real. Amiga Forever should sufice.

[Shane R. Monroe]

Something you can't put into words. Maybe its playing it on a TV ...

[Darksol]

These days your game has to conform to the graphic standards . XGA and their derivates . before it was VGA before that it was CGA.

Some arcades games had some uniqueness put into them by the fact they were made to be played with some very non standard resolutions (256x256 anyone )