Visual Basic

[Anonymous]

I've been toying with the idea of coding a few games over the years. I started on an Apple IIe in '81-'82 (I was 15). Wrote a text version of Monopoly for my school project..(shudder to think what it would look like now!! :D).

Have been messing with computers ever since. Had an Oric-1 (anyone remember that?..wrote a Video Poker game and Poker Solitaire game for it) and an Amstrad CPC 464 (re-did the Poker Machine and a few silly things such as a Reaction Speed tester and Hangman). I even toyed with Assembler on the Oric-1 which was a 6502 machine. Simple stuff...just moving things around the screen.

I've been writing software 'professionally' now for about 11 years. Non-game unfortunately using COBOL on VMS, Visual Basic(v3,4,5 and 6) and Oracle Developer 2000 on Win3.1 and Win32. I'm also working with ASP technology for web-based apps.

I have messed about with VB for games...yet again doing the Poker Machine and have redone Poker Solitaire in HTML/JavaScript.

I've had an aborted attempt at Tetris in VB...will try again... The thing is ....Is VB a viable language to attempt coding something more graphically challenging than Tetris? Or should I try something like Blitz Basic? I have seen the marvellous Amiga Poing remake that was done in BB.

Help!

[davykelly]

Oops!!!! I posted the above under the Guest user by accident! :oops:

[Bill_Loguidice]

Oops!!!! I posted the above under the Guest user by accident! :oops:

There are actually quite a few books on coding games in VB. Blitz Basic is a very specific game language that you could probably pick up very fast based on your prior experience. However, if you know VB well, despite the higher difficulty level, I'm sure you can get the same or better results. I know a few people on this list, Shane too, know higher languages, yet still choose to code in Blitz Basic for convenience and the specifics of the language.

[xyzzy]

Bill is right about the books, I just did a search on Amazon and it produces a lot of hits. In my limited, and I mean LIMITED experience I have found one thing. (Background: I am trying to break into Hobby Game Programming, know a little basic, and have tried to program on VB and other 'hobby' languages.) That thing is that messing with direct X through the VB platform is a real pain. Many books have been written on that subject alone. Which is why other game specific languages have cropped up.

Note to Bill...I have decided to go all the way and get Blitz3d, I'll let you know what happens.

Other game oriented languages seem to intrinsically deal with direct X without much intervention from the programmer. The same can be said for sound. Shane knows a lot more about such things, and is an avid Blitz supporter. I sure he'll chime in and give you the pitch on that package.

Also you will find neat commands for such things as setting gravity, friction, and angle rotation without doing a butt load of trig. Amen to that, eh?

Anyway, hope this helps. Go to www.blitzbasic.com and get the demo. There are many sample programs included which are surprisingly impressive.

[Bill_Loguidice]

Note to Bill...I have decided to go all the way and get Blitz3d, I'll let you know what happens.

Other game oriented languages seem to intrinsically deal with direct X without much intervention from the programmer. The same can be said for sound. Shane knows a lot more about such things, and is an avid Blitz supporter. I sure he'll chime in and give you the pitch on that package.

Also you will find neat commands for such things as setting gravity, friction, and angle rotation without doing a butt load of trig. Amen to that, eh?

Anyway, hope this helps. Go to www.blitzbasic.com and get the demo. There are many sample programs included which are surprisingly impressive.

I hope that they don't replace your Blitz 3D with a 'Blitz Dimension' (cool name :wink: ) or something right after you buy it like they did with me when Blitz 2D almost immediately was superceded by 'Blitz Plus'. They even dropped the price of the book/Blitz 2D combo to a REALLY cheap price, practically throwing Blitz 2D in for less than $10. I have no *major* regrets though :wink: .

I'm still on the fence about the Blitz book. I'll make my decision by the end of this week. It's just hard finding good blocks of time to sit down and get a handle on the commands and structure of Blitz. I'm sure once I start picking some of it up I can actually get to the programming.

Let me ask, why Blitz 3D? Do you have 3D projects in mind? That's a big step up...

[Shane R. Monroe]

Bryan has done several titles in VB - he would be a good chime in on that front.

What *I* have noticed about VB is that you'll spend all your time in the API to do anything impressive. I have some technical hurdle about getting into the API, which Blitz removes from me.

Here is what I find amazing about Blitz. After about a year, I'm at a point to where there is nothing I cannot do. If I imagine it, in a couple hours, I can realize it. There is power in extensible libraries (like C), but there is almost equal power in a fixed, finite set that requires a bit of imagination sometimes, sure - but once you have the set down - you're golden.

Let me explain something about the Blitz series - maybe people will feel better (or worse). But let's get truth be told.

Blitz comes in three flavors:

Blitz2D
BTW, they are basically DROPPING the term 'Basic' - and its smart of them to do so. This is a full blown 2D gaming language. There is nothing missing from this aside from Alpha/Transparency effects. Blitz2D is wholey owned and Operated now by Idigicon, not by the original programmer, Mark Sibly. As I understand it, there was a nasty altercation somewhere along the way - this is why you will no longer find B2D on the www.blitzbasic.com site. I've been in Mark's shoes and had Idigicon pull the rug out from under me - so I'm COMPLETELY sympathetic to the cause. This doesn't make the language any worse for wear - as it is very clean, complete, and time tested; and in fact, its my PRIMARY coding language.

Blitz3D
This is Blitz2D with 3D added in. You can do ANYTHING Blitz 2D can do with this; in fact, the command structure is identical. The 3D setup in Blitz Basic is just friggin' choice, and if I cared at all about 3D, I'd be using it. Mark still has some sort of vested interest in this product, which is why you see it have continued representation at BlitzBasic.com. Mark owns BlitzBasic.com - not Idigicon. Unfortunately, the customer always suffers from internal strife like this, but both Idigicon and Mark seem dedicated to their respective products. I've seen commercial quality products come out of B3D - even those with their own finely honed C++ 3D engines are switching to Blitz3D.

BlitzPlus
This is Blitz2D plus some basic event driven GUI stuff (windows, menus, etc.) This is Mark's attempt to recoup his losses on Blitz2D I suspect. I am writing a project in it right now (the RGR Year 4 CDROM interface is being written in it) and its performing as I would expect. Its got some 1.0 issues to be sure and I'm not a GUI lover to be sure - I bought it to support Mark and I truly believe that the VERY few issues in Blitz2D (transparency namely) WILL EVENTUALLY be fixed in BlitzPlus because that's where Mark's meal ticket is now.

I do feel sorry for Bill - because he DID seem to get a bit screwed on this participation at this time. The problem is, I'm completely out of the Blitz loop now (I appear to open my mouth too much I guess), and I don't find out anything before the public does. BlitzPlus came as a shock to me as well. Frankly, BlitzPlus is a great START to a full-purpose language - but that's not really for me.

I'm a Blitz2D man. And until BlitzPlus offers up more 2D functionality, I wouldn't recommend it to Bill, or anyone else here unless you want to write a "windows app" - and if that were the case - there are currently more full-featured languages to use for that right this minute.

I sold Bill a copy of B2D for $20 and included a value-add CD (I still have more here left over) and while the book didn't come with it, it beats the hell out of waiting for shipping from the UK, with that added expense as well. I'll feel bad if BlitzPlus matures at a fantastic rate and Blitz2D doesn't get the benefit - but right now, I felt he got the best deal around.

My recommendation is Blitz2D for the hobby programmer. Blitz3D requires a team to make real headway and make you feel good. Blitz2D, you can get immediate satisfaction. As for BlitzPlus, I recommend it if you MUST have GUI stuff or you just want to support the guy that's doing all this work. $60 isn't quite an impulse buy though - $20 is.

Work through Blitz2D. Become the master. Then you're ready to move on to one of the other packages. The online support for Blitz2D is just unreal.

If you people have problems getting jump started, just ask here. If I got time, I'll throw you down a little code to get you started, or at least point you in the right direction. How's that?

[xyzzy]

Okay Shane...if you have a sec...

Bill asked why I was thinking about Blitz3D. I'll answer him, and in the process, maybe you can listen and see if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

A few reasons actually. Everything in Blitz2D is included and identical, so I am not losing anything. Although I would be gaining a few things in the command sets. Transparencies are one. I knowit is not all that important, but some of the things I was working on, were shadows using transparencies, and for a later project...chat windows where you could set your own transparency to overlay it ontop of your view...possibly in 3D. To be explained later.

Another reason is my main project. I am working on a GTA2 style game, and have made some progress. In working on the project I found something strange. GTA2 is a 3D game. Basically, you have an overhead camera view of a 3D modeled town. I like the effect. I know Shane is rabidly against 3D, but I do not have that sort of bias. I promise not to use it for evil. :D I basically want to make very simple 3D buildings for the neat effect of driving by them. This seems to add alot to the feel of the game. This also seems to be a good way to break into 3D since I am not asking much...the extent of my modeling will be cubes with bulding-like textures. The rest of the game will still be based on good old sprites.

There is another reason. I am used to 3D modeling. Back when Half Life came out, it shipped with the WorldCraft level editor. I messed with that thing for over a year and was able to make a lot of cool stuff. I looked at the Maplet App that is available for the 3D package and found it to be remarkably similar. So in a weird way, I have more experience in that realm than I do in regular programming. When I think about making a modular town out of cubes, it would be a piece of cake compared to some of the crap I made with WorldCraft.

As far as other reasons, that chatroom I talked about may turn into a very simple 3D chat room. But that is way in the future...

Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

[davykelly]

Blitz2D or BlitzPlus sounds good to me. I'm not interested in 3D...just as well as I wouldn't be up to it. Shane's right...you would require a team including 3D modellers etc.

Shane's also right about VB and using the API for effects...I even use the API for commercial software on occasion!

I think I'll go for Blitz...that will ensure I also have a work/play split in my mind when I'm coding!

I would be interested in Shane's deal of Blitz2D for $20. How would I move on this?

[Catdaddy]

My recommendation is Blitz2D for the hobby programmer. Blitz3D requires a team to make real headway and make you feel good. Blitz2D, you can get immediate satisfaction. As for BlitzPlus, I recommend it if you MUST have GUI stuff or you just want to support the guy that's doing all this work. $60 isn't quite an impulse buy though - $20 is.

Work through Blitz2D. Become the master. Then you're ready to move on to one of the other packages. The online support for Blitz2D is just unreal.



Hey, Shane...

I'm kind of just getting back into programming after a verrryyyy long hiatus. I came down to choosing between Blitz and DarkBasic. I think the decision was made when I seen just how much support is out there for this language. I had read the whole back story about Idigicon and Mark and I purchased my copy of BlitzPlus directly from the BlitzBasic site so that my money went to the right person. I didn't get an instruction manual or book or anything like that which was disturbing at first. My question to you, and I know everybody is different, but what do you think is a decent learning period for Blitz? I have scripted in almost any markup language you could think of. I have played around with VB. In my old school days I was mainly into BASIC and light Assembly (when I wasn't hacking my 1541). So I know basic program structure and flow. You said you have been at this for about a year (Blitz) and are comfortable creating whatever you imagine. I was just wondering what your take on a decent learning period would be?

[Shane R. Monroe]

Contact me offline directly.

Thanks!


Blitz2D or BlitzPlus sounds good to me. I'm not interested in 3D...just as well as I wouldn't be up to it. Shane's right...you would require a team including 3D modellers etc.

Shane's also right about VB and using the API for effects...I even use the API for commercial software on occasion!

I think I'll go for Blitz...that will ensure I also have a work/play split in my mind when I'm coding!

I would be interested in Shane's deal of Blitz2D for $20. How would I move on this?

[Shane R. Monroe]

You could be doing something productive in a couple of days.

It really depends on how much work you've done with blitting and double buffer displays. A lot of old school people are used to hardware sprites - which Blitz doesn't have.

If you've worked with Structs or Types before, it will be faster and easier for you.

Honestly, I think you'll pick it up quickly.





My recommendation is Blitz2D for the hobby programmer. Blitz3D requires a team to make real headway and make you feel good. Blitz2D, you can get immediate satisfaction. As for BlitzPlus, I recommend it if you MUST have GUI stuff or you just want to support the guy that's doing all this work. $60 isn't quite an impulse buy though - $20 is.

Work through Blitz2D. Become the master. Then you're ready to move on to one of the other packages. The online support for Blitz2D is just unreal.



Hey, Shane...

I'm kind of just getting back into programming after a verrryyyy long hiatus. I came down to choosing between Blitz and DarkBasic. I think the decision was made when I seen just how much support is out there for this language. I had read the whole back story about Idigicon and Mark and I purchased my copy of BlitzPlus directly from the BlitzBasic site so that my money went to the right person. I didn't get an instruction manual or book or anything like that which was disturbing at first. My question to you, and I know everybody is different, but what do you think is a decent learning period for Blitz? I have scripted in almost any markup language you could think of. I have played around with VB. In my old school days I was mainly into BASIC and light Assembly (when I wasn't hacking my 1541). So I know basic program structure and flow. You said you have been at this for about a year (Blitz) and are comfortable creating whatever you imagine. I was just wondering what your take on a decent learning period would be?

[Catdaddy]

You could be doing something productive in a couple of days.

It really depends on how much work you've done with blitting and double buffer displays. A lot of old school people are used to hardware sprites - which Blitz doesn't have.

If you've worked with Structs or Types before, it will be faster and easier for you.

Honestly, I think you'll pick it up quickly.



Thanks. I was watching a demo the other day written in Blitz that was displaying something like 600 or so sprites on the screen at once. That just blew my mind. And my computer wasn't even breathing hard.

Being an ex-Commodore junkie, the double buffer display method seems a bit ackward. But when I actually wrote my first little blurb of code moving a .BMP around the screen with it I was instantly hooked. I couldn't believe how fast it was.

I read the quickstart manual you did for DIV that you posted in another part of the forum: Excellent reading. In fact, I've been listening to your show for about a year now, and you don't know what a thrill it is to find others who share the same interests as yours. (Yeah, I know, that's not true - and I wear my newbie badge with pride :) I just hope you guys are here for the long haul because this is truly a great community you've built.

[Shane R. Monroe]

We ain't goin' anywhere ... :)

[davykelly]

Haven't been here in a while.... my web connection was down for a fair while - now on broadband. I've been very busy at work too.

Anyhow...purchased BBplus from the BB site and have started working in the new language.

The language is very similar to BASIC - no problems there...and getting my head around the screen buffering idea wasn't too bad either.

Its structuring the program overall that's giving me problems. I've started on a card game (based around a poker machine theme) - its something I've done in VB a few times and I wanted to code something I understand quite well so that I'm not wrestling with the new methodology of programming as well as game-specific problems - one thing at a time!

I started with a game loop, calling routines given keypresses and a game state variable value. It working OK so far but its going to get quite messy...I think given the type of game I'm writing its probably better to look at a finite state machine setup. So I'm going to plan out all the different states and the state transitions on paper and then restructure the code.

After that, I'll probably go for a more action oriented game which would suit a game loop type structure....

Anyone think I'm totally off kilter here?