America Right (hypocrisy)

[WorknMan]

My apologies in advance for the long rant that is about to follow ...

So I'm scanning through channels on my XM Radio the other day and run across this channel called America Right. There was this guy named Mike Reagan (http://www.reagan.com) (who is apparently Ronald Reagan's son) on the air, and let me tell ya .. this guy was pissed. Somebody was apparently trying to get a cross removed from something or other and he (and his callers) were going on about how this country was founded on Christianity and we need to get back to morality, righteousness, ban gay marriage, censor video games, etc. Yeah, no big deal .. what else do you expect from a right wing talkshow host, right?
But, here's the kicker. Wanna know where he was taping the show from? The Stardust Hotel in Vegas, where he was there betting on horse races - by his own admission. Now, call me dumb if I'm wrong, but aren't there some provisions (http://www.biblestudyguide.org/bible-answers/gambling.htm) in the Bible against gambling? I just can't help but wonder what would happen if we started holding these people accountable to the same book that they are so quick to judge others by. Not only the conservative talk show hosts, but anyone who chooses to side with them, which is what led me to post this.

After listening to this guy for awhile, I then found an even bigger surprise - I flipped over to America Left (which is essentially the liberal version of America Right), and they had a lady on there talking about how she was a Christian (on the same show where they were dissing the book of Revelation pretty hard), but she didn't like the hardcore 'Christian extremists' - so what the hell is a Christian extremist anyway? Somebody who actually lives by what their religion teaches? That's just like people who say "Ya know, I'm a Christian, but I don't believe in organized religion." Or in other words, "Yeah, I'm a Christian .. but only when it's convenient for me!" They carry just enough of it so as to use it as an excuse to discriminate against anything and anyone they want. Kind of like my step mom, who says gay marriage is immoral and ought not to be allowed, and also we need to get God back in schools. This coming from a lady who supports abortion (see, that convenience thing again) and hasn't seen the inside of a church in years. Hell, most people I know personally who claim Christianity as their religion probably have never even seen a Bible, much less read one. If you asked them what the 10 Commandments were, they probably couldn't even list 3 of them for you. The only time they call on God is when somebody is about to die or something really bad happens. And these people are somehow naive enough to think that if there really is such a God, he's probably thrilled with them and absolutely LOVES America.

Please understand that this is not a rant against Christians or Christianity. In fact, I got a lot of respect for those hardcore Bible thumpers out there. They may be misguided (IMHO) and slighty annoying, but at least they're for real, and it sure as hell ain't easy to do what they do. I say that when it comes to Christianity (or any religion for that matter), you either need to shit or get off the pot. If you're going to wear that label, you should be at least as dedicated to your religion as the terrorists are to theirs, if not more (minus the violence, of course). Just getting tired of the medicore, 'luke warm' wannabes out there, who are siding with the fundies, and steadily working to take away more of my rights in the process.

[Shane R. Monroe]

That works for me!

[WorknMan]

BTW, here's an afterthough - something new I learned today on the Michael Savage show (America Right).

If you are critical of eitehr Bush or the war, then you obviously hate America and you are siding with the terrorits.
Also, the people who disagree with the politics of Bush and Ashcroft do so beccause of their own sexual deviancy. They know that both Bush and Ashcroft are good, Christian men with a high degree of morality, who know the difference between right and wrong, and what good and evil is and those who oppose Bush/Ashcroft (dubbed 'America haters') just don't want to be judged. I mean, who knew???? I guess we all learn something new every day!

Savage also asks why liberals seem to go after Bush more than the terrorists, which is a fair question, IMHO. I hear a lot in liberal circles about the wrong way to combat terrorists (basically the way Bushco is doing it), but very little about the right way.
However, along those same lines, I have to follow that up with a quesiton - why does Savage and his ilk seem less concerned with the enviroment and widespread corporate screwing of the average 'consumer' in this country than they are about what consenting adults are doing on their own bedrooms? Hell, if they woudl bitch as much about the outrageous gas prices as they did the homosexuals, we'd probably all be paying $.99 a gallon by now. Also, considering this is suppose to be God's creation, you would think they would be enviromentalist freaks, unless they are convinced that Jesus is coming back next month, in which case I guess none of that really matters.

[Shane R. Monroe]

You have to understand something, my friend... Wait ...

First a disclaimer ... I believe in a Higher Power(tm). I believe in a power that doesn't require heavy financing or the killing/ostrocizing of my fellow man in order to conform. I'm no Atheist nor Agnostic (by the common definition). So keep that in mind while I rant ...

We are guarenteed by RIGHTS - the separation of church and state. And for any of you following Bush's candid interviews and his overall agenda, Bush isn't running the office; God is. Now, God is cool - but I don't want God running my country. "God" runs the countries of the Middle East; and we can all PRETTY MUCH AGREE that it hasn't worked out well.

Someone once said that more blood has been spilled in the name of religion that all world wars combined.

That being said, I don't want God running my country.

My country was built on freedom. Our citizens are DYING every single day in pursuit of the impartment of FREEDOM to Iraq and other countries. This VERY FREEDOM we hold so dear and are so damn eager to share with others (apparently whether they like it or not) is being PISSED away over stupid things like an exposed nipple. Or saying "oral sex" on the radio. I guess someone is working on getting violence and sex off HBO. WHAT THE HELL??? When I was growing up, watching HBO scrambled for free hoping to see part of a boob, is a rite of passage.

I served my country for almost a decade. I've done my time. I've come through for Uncle Sam when he needed me. Now I'd like to retain some of those freedoms that I fought for. I'd like to be able to listen to Howard Stern without getting cut 10x an hour. I'd like to be able to watch THE BEST SPORTS SHOW PERIOD and hear the word "friggin'". I'd like to be able to watch SIX FEET UNDER and watch two interracial men engage in man-love (well, wait ... strike that .. reverse it .. thank you) ... er, make that Showtime's THE L WORD and watch two caucasian women engaging in sapphic love. Yeah, there we go.

Bush needs to go. I don't believe in our electoral vote system. We don't live in a true democrasy. I haven't voted since Ronald Reagan (hey, he had ATZ, get off). But just to SAY that I did (even though my vote really doesn't matter) my part to get Bush OUT - I'll register and vote. Kerry ain't no angel - but I'll take the lesser of two evils please.

When Bush says that he stopped listening to his father because there was "a more Important Father he was listening to" and praising people on television for doing "God's Work" and when half the Senate have summer homes being funded by secret religious organizations - I'VE HAD ENOUGH.

I'm tired of BILLIONS being spent to help people that have made it plain that they don't want our help. I'm tired of this BS "pseudo" war against terrorism that was NEATLY swept under the table by Bushco's adminstration in favor of Iraq. I'm tired of seeing my fellow Americans being beheaded on TV or hung from a bridge - all the while my OTHER fellow Americans are being brought up on charges for making the same people that did those attrocities (those that would kill the first chance they got) run around naked in handcuffs.

We need to kick a little ass again. Remember Pearl Harbor? How diplomatic did THAT go over? We didn't have Colin Powell calling the Japanese asking them how sorry they were that it happened and promising some sort of peaceful negotiation.

I'm tired of political correctness in the light of 5,000 people being killed terrorist hijackers.

I love America. I love my country - and I did my time protecting it. But I don't like Bush. I don't like his administration. I don't like what my country is becoming because of right wing conservatives that feel the word SEX should be censored. People live in FEAR; fear of prosecution. Fear of lawsuits. Fear of being labeled. Fear of being shown on CNN.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO AMERICA WHEN I WASN'T LOOKING???

I spent 18 years becoming an ADULT so I could HAVE A CHOICE what I watched, what I did, and how I acted. Then, by the time I get old enough, well-off enough, and happy enough to do it - America turns to "wussy mode".

I could rant more .. but I gotta work ...

[Shane R. Monroe]

I see separation of church and state is finally over. Bush gave a non-American civilian the highest non-military medal to the friggin' Pope. Not for any reason other than the Pope is "a devoted servant of God." God wasn't available to take Bush's medal today, so the Pope had to do it.

Like Bryan said to me offline, next thing you know, Bush will be sponsoring country wide tithing in addition to taxes. "If you would like to be God's Devoted Servant (and avoid a tax audit) check this box and add $1000 on Line 23 of Tax Form 1040. Tithing above 20% of your income will result in us sending you a medal."

The United States is not a church. Its citizens are not parishioners. I'm sick of God running my country.

I so want Bush out. I think the release of Moore's Farenheight 911 will finish Bush off. According to the trailer I just saw, when 911 happened, and Bush grounded all the planes, he authorized one .... the one that flew to Bin Laden's FAMILY right HERE IN THE USA and evacuated them out of the country. If this is true, Bush should be impeached. I'll wait for the film before I take the trailer prima facia, but dammit man ... this ain't RIGHT!

[WorknMan]

In regards to Michael Moore, a lot of what is in the new movie sounds like a repeat of what's already in his book 'Dude, Where's My Country?' If you look around the web, you will find some critical (?) analysis of some of the points made in the book, including the one you brought up. Here is such a page:

Dude, Where's My Intellectual Honesty? (http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20031016.html)

All I can say is, who knows? I think most of these people are more interested in bashing each other more than anything else. I will be honest and say I don't know a lot about politics, but most of what is disucssed seems like the Windows vs Linux debate - it just goes on and on, and in the end, nobody changes their minds, so it just seems a waste to keep arguing the same points over and over again.

One thing I am pretty sure of is this: The one thing that divides this country more than anything else is religion. I ran into an article yesterday that articulates exactly what I have been thinking:

Churchgoing closely tied to voting patterns (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=676&e=2&u=/usatoday/20040603/ts_usatoday/churchgoingcloselytiedtovotingpatterns)

Anyway, as far as religion and society goes, someone asked me recently what I thought was a pretty intelligent question. If allowing 'immorality' to pervade in our society doesn't have a deterimental effect on anyone except those who particpate in it, then what is wrong with our kids now days, as compared to, say ... the 50s? Sure, you could chalk it up to bad parenting, but what has caused the parents to go astray? Could it be that the lack of Biblical principles taught in schools has had a 'trickle-down' effect on our children? Here in my neck of the woods, it isn't unusual for me to see girls in their late teens running around with 2-3 kids, using what little money they manage to obtain to buy weed and such, while their kids live in a sh*thole. So I would have to concede that something went horribly wrong somewhere.

[Shane R. Monroe]

That's a very EASY question .. one we've discussed in detail offline.

Let's look at this ...

In the '50s, companies were about people more than money. A man could reasonably expect that he could put in 30 years at the company he now works for. The man brought home the bacon. The wife fried it up in a pan. When the kids got home from school - mom was there; parenting. Dinner time came, dad was home; everyone sat around the table and the parents got an idea what was going on at school, amongst the children's peer group, etc. Children had a stable, regular schedule; going to bed, getting up at the same time. Having a routine. Life was simply NOT chaotic. If the kiddies got out of hand, dad sent them outside to get a switch to get paddled with. When you have to go find your own paddle, you stop screwing up FAST.

Then the 60s came ... People were SOOO into each other and what was going on politically. The family unit lost its importance as kids 'defied' society and anyone else that got in the way of burning bras and free love (read this as PARENTS). The rebellion was legitimized by the media, and the family unit was overall lost in the 60s ... showing that generation how to NOT be the best parents. Physical punishment was still around, but parents tended to let the kiddies go and 'learn from their own mistakes'.

The 70's came ... my generation was born. The family unit was already largely forgotton as children grew up in the mainly television era. Parents used the TV as babysitters. Economics could have been better, so more and more 'homemaker role' spouses had to start finding work. Companies started shifting to more "corporate goals" and less about "people" in the 70s. This, too forced the second parent out of the house. This shift in economics and parenting left children largely unfullfilled growing up - and the family unit was further lost. Because of the added strain of financial and economical crisis, and the breakdown of the family unit, physical punishment of children might have gotten a lilttle out of hand. You were ALWAYS hearing about a little 'over abuse'.

Then came the 80s. My generation graduated high school in the latter part of that decade. This decade boomed with "stuff". "Stuff" you gotta have. The 80's show people how to WANT THINGS. ALL KINDS of things. Things you didn't really need. The CREDIT boom started in the 80s. "Can't afford those speakers??? F***ING FINANCE IT MAN!" <kthxruthlesspeople>. "Obsessive Fads" really were born in the 80's. But it wasn't until later that people started getting reprogrammed .... more about that in a minute. The end of the 80s saw a REAL GROWTH in "political correctness". This included physical discipline. Spanking your children (even with a controlled hand) became a jailable offense - and that kickstarted Generation Gimmie. I'm sure if you looked at statistics, you'd find that amidst all this "gotta have", two income households went through the roof. Meaning less supervision, less family unit.

So, came the 90's. My generation started having kids. Somewhere, out there, someone came up with "I want my kids to have EVERYTHING they want, because *I* couldn't have everything I wanted". GENERATION GIMMIE was born. Ask ... and you receive. Before long, it was EXPECTED. I obviously DESERVE it, since I got all this other sh*t. I WANT AN OOMPA LOOMPA NOW! The "I didn't like getting hit when I was a kid" motiff set in, along with the mega-over-indulgence of political correctness and 'vogue' new child raising that didn't involved real punishment ("Fear will keep the local systems in line" ...). Simply put, kids born in the 90s have no respect, no discipline. They expect it all, and they want it now. Keeping up with the Joneses in now an accepted, respectable pasttime, and more and more families move to double income households. The kids are raised by child care, then when parents feel they can leave the kid alone without going to jail over it, TV and peers finish the job of raising the kids. Parents have no time.

Now, in the 2000's ... Generation Gimmie will give birth to an ALL NEW hybrid of snotty little sh*thead children; raised by record labels and stupid lemmingass reality shows. These parents have NO parenting skills passed down - even their grandparents have few tools to help out. They will follow whatever "fad" child raising system is put out "by the creators of Atkins" or some other gheyass fad source that proliferated the late 90s, early 2000s. No one remembers how to parent - and those that do, well - "I want more for my kids ... so take it and me for a ride... kthx". Raising your voice to your children gets you put in jail because the conservatives that run the country says "God doesnt want you to yell at your children". "Freedom is yours, as long as you do what we say" .. that type thing.

So ... is "lack of the Bible" responsible for our current decaying social state? Nope. Put the blame where blame is ULTIMATELY due (and always has been) ... on the PARENTS.

Thank you, drive through.

[WorknMan]

So ... is "lack of the Bible" responsible for our current decaying social state? Nope. Put the blame where blame is ULTIMATELY due (and always has been) ... on the PARENTS.

Ok, so if we're going to chalk up this problem to lack of bad parenting and trace it back to the counter-culture of the 60s, then what exactly was it that started the downward spiral? Did those growing up in the 60s eat some tainted meat or something, and all of a sudden they were into free love and puff .. puff .. pass? Playing devi's advocate here, some people would say that the reason why all of this started in the first place was because 'we took God out of schools.'

[Shane R. Monroe]

I'll counter that by saying that parents stopped enforcing the rules and let their children run amok.

The 60's were a weird age. I didn't grow up in it, so I can't cite PERSONAL examples.

However, post-war children appeared to want a change. They didn't want to be branded part of the previous generation of war. So, they took it to the OTHER extreme; sex, drugs, and rock & roll.

Let's not forget how F'ed up the 60's really were. Might have driven me to sleep around, do drugs, and Fight The Man(tm) ...

- Civil Rights issues out the ass. This will happen again too, as long as the FCC and government continue to try to stop us from feeling and speaking.
- Vietnam
- A loved president assassinated
- MLK assassinated pissing a lot of people off

It was an UGLY era, if you look at the latter half of it. No wonder kids snapped.

Again, there has been at least 2 generations since that could have 'repaired' the issues.

Don't want to blame the parents? Blame society. But that doesn't need to involve God on ANY level.

[bbagnall]

Interesting conversation here. I liked your summary of every generation, Shane.

I recently read part of a book by David Horowitz called "Radical Son". He was one of the designers of the 60's movement. Apparently he was raised by Marxist parents who were Communist supporters. He also infused Marxism into the things he wrote. It's no surprise the 60's gave rise to "communes" and things like that.

Also, some things which appeared somewhat neutral, like Vietnam war protests and "friends for Cuba" were in fact outright pro-Communism movements designed to weaken the US and help the Communist Soviet Union. Several of Horowitz's 60's radical friends even received funding directly from Soviet Russia!

I'm starting to rethink the 60s movement as a deliberate attempt to weaken the United States. Anything to weaken the US was probably great in the eyes of mother Russia. Drugs weaken our minds, Marxist philosophies are injected into the culture. Lennin himself proclaimed "we must destroy religion, nation, race, and family" since these were the things that united countries and made them harder to defeat.

So even though Communism collapsed, I think cultural fugue is echoing these ideas through our culture, media and especially universities, even today.

[Flare]

Pope Offers Apology, Not Penalty, for Sex Abuse Scandal (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/world/europe/21pope.html)



nytimes.com — Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday apologized personally to victims and their families in a letter to Irish Catholics, but did not refer directly to immediate disciplinary action.