PSP Flying Off Store Shelves [Archive]

Chewchilla

03-25-2005, 11:33 AM

PS1 compilations are being made for the PS2, so we'll probably see some for the PSP as well. :)

From IGN:
Namco Collection to Feature PSX Classics
Ridge Racer, Tekken, Ace Combat and more on one disk!
by Anoop Gantayat

March 25, 2005 - As Namco continues to celebrate its 50th anniversary, it's tapped into its archive for a collection of 32-bit titles. The newly announced Nam Collection will include five PlayStation classics all for the price of 3,990 yen in Japan.

The list includes games that have gone on to become PlayStation mainstays. You'll find Ridge Racer (release: 12/3/1994), Tekken (3/31/1994), Ace Combat 2 (5/30/1997), Klonoa (12/11/1997) and Mr. Driller (6/29/2000), all in old-school PlayStation form. Namco is also throwing in a Museum Mode which includes movies of expert play of the titles and lots of other bonuses.

A release on this first-of-a-kind classics collection (when was the last time you heard of PlayStation games being bundled together for re-release on the PS2?) will arrive to Japan on 6/2. A US version has yet to be announced.

jamcat

03-25-2005, 11:50 AM

Cool. Nice to see that starting to be done. Though I don't care for Ridge Racer Or Tekken. Be nice to see a collection with just all Ace Combat games.

Demolition Man

03-25-2005, 11:58 AM

The PSP certainly isn't "flying off store shelves" here. My store only sold 5 out of the 20 we got, other CC's sold maybe 1-3 at best. Meanwhile the nearby BBY sold at best 6-7.

Looks like Nintendo has very little to worry about, if anything.

jamcat

03-25-2005, 12:01 PM

Demolition Man

03-25-2005, 12:11 PM

So, your CC didn't open at midnight or open 2 hours early on release day to sell the PSP?

Best Buy opened at 8:01 AM, from what I heard there wasn't much of a turnout for it. We opened at our regular time (10 AM), but we did have one employee give out vouchers starting at 7 AM.

Chewchilla

03-25-2005, 12:24 PM

The PSP was fairly easy to get around here yesterday because a lot of places received more units than they were expecting to have shipped-out to them, and some places people didn't think would get systems - got them in.

I know that locally, people were going to places like Best Buy and Circuit City as a "last ditch effort" to pick-up a PSP. Many folks hit shops like EB Games and GameStop first to see if any systems were available.

jamcat

03-25-2005, 12:35 PM

Hehe, I wonder if EB or GameStop had any trade in your DS or GBA for a PSP thing going on.

Think I remember FuncoLand had something like that back in the day with the Saturn. Like turn in a SNES or Genesis with 10 games and get a percentage off on the Saturn.

Chewchilla

03-25-2005, 01:08 PM

EB Games and GameStop weren't doing any trade-in deals for the PSP launch.

Best Buy had a PSP flyer with a couple of coupons that knocked a few bucks off some third party accessories.

Circuit City was selling their Twisted Metal PSP bundle for $290 (might be why they weren't "flying off the shelves" there).

Fry's was selling a 2 game PSP bundle (One of the games you could choose, the other was a "Fry's selection").

At the end of the day, the stores that sold the Sony PSP bundle for $250 had the most sales since customers weren't forced into paying for a game or an accessory they didn't want.

yuckymucky

03-25-2005, 02:48 PM

I was just at Target here and there were about 50 PSPs in the game display. It honestly didn't look like they had sold any.

I know 3 people that I work with that went and got them and they all had dead pixels in them. Not just 1 or 2 either. If I do end up getting one I am forsure going to wait for a price drop and maybe the 3-4 production run.

Lento

03-25-2005, 02:53 PM

I'm going to post this as I think everyone should know about it before even considering buying a PSP, I posted it in another forum also but I am being cheap and crossposting it here also:
Seems like Sony may not replace units with dead pixels, and there is quite a few of them out there.

Rumour has it that Sony won't replace your unit if it has dead pixels, some people seems to have as many as 7 dead pixels. (Some stores might exchange them anyway though) o_O

http://portable.joystiq.com/entry/1234000037037383/

On a sidenote, Nintendo does not accept dead pixels and will infact replace your DS unit with dead pixels.

About the PSP, from the page above:
"From page 13 of the US release manual, "Red, blue or green spots (bright spots) or black spots (dark spots)may appear in certain locations on the LCD screen. The appearance of such spots is a normal occurrence associated with LCD screens and is not a sign of a malfunction. LCD screens are made using a highly precise technology. However a very small number of dark pixels or continuously lit pixels exist on each screen. Also, a distorted image may remain on the screen for several seconds after the system has been turned off."

Also there seems to be issue with bluring and also a burn in time of the LCD screen, dead pixels may occur after a few weeks etc, yikes! "It's a sony?"

Shane R. Monroe

03-25-2005, 02:58 PM

Chewchilla

03-25-2005, 03:13 PM

jamcat

03-25-2005, 03:33 PM

I am forsure going to wait for a price drop and maybe the 3-4 production run.

Yep, leave the high price & dead pixels for the hardcore gamers & early adopters. After a few production runs, all the bugs should be fixed. It just pays to wait.

Shane R. Monroe

03-25-2005, 03:41 PM

It has also been rumored that the PSP will smack you if you look at it the wrong way......What's this? A dead pixel?!?!? *SMACK* AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Jeezus people! Myself and others didn't get this "worked-up" when we found a dead pixel on the DS.

How about we all wait on an official statement from Sony US on replacing PSP's with dead pixels and not take a statement from ONE game shop as the "gospel truth" mmmkay?

If Sony comes out next week and says "Screw-off American PSP owners!" then you can all continue yellin' and screamin'. But it just doesn't make a whole lot of business sense to take care of your Japanese PSP customers and not your American PSP customers.

If either of my DSes had a dead pixel, and page 13 of the DS booklet said "Dead pixels are a fact of life, deal with it", I'd be screaming like a madman right now.

Fact is, they rushed production, they are short on supply, they aren't going to take them back (even in Japan, they were telling people they would be waiting 8 weeks to get their unit replaced - maybe I could hold my $250 for the next 8 weeks while you fix my sh*t heh ... ). This is standard short stocking like Sony did with the PS2. Yeah, I'd go with the "Piss off Customer" approach. When DSes were in short supply, there was never an issue like that. The manual wasn't saying "kthxnothx" - they were saying "Call the number on your unit, and we'll take care of you".

Just a lot wrong with this picture ... despite the regular stuff.

sci

03-25-2005, 08:08 PM

They are taking back units with dead pixel in Japan now. Dead pixels are a fact of life with those kind of screens, hell even on expensive 1000$ lcd screen, they dont take them back until theres a certain amount of dead pixels. The dead pixel problems was there at the launch of the DS too, search the forum about how I opened up mine in front of the clerks at EB when i got mine.

The fact that they "arent sold out anywhere" is that Sony shipped about 1 million units in the states, which is.. 3x the amount of ps2 that was shipped at launch. They went a bit overkill, but maybe they didnt want to suffer lost sales like they were doing a few months ago with pstwo units.

I'll be getting my psp in a few weeks, since right now my gaming time is taken up by SF:AC, Phantom Dust and Front Mission 4, and there's the new Splinter Cell game coming out next weeks.

sci

03-25-2005, 09:39 PM

sony announces that they will fix dead pixels for free:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/25/news_6121092.html

chrisbid

03-25-2005, 09:51 PM

they arent flying off the shelves, and there was no free publicity of kids beating up old women in front of wal mart to get a PSP, so the launch has been tepid.

there are still a lot of people creaming their pants over the thing though

but its quickly becoming evident that the PSP is the phantom menace of game systems

Chewchilla

03-25-2005, 10:41 PM

If either of my DSes had a dead pixel, and page 13 of the DS booklet said "Dead pixels are a fact of life, deal with it", I'd be screaming like a madman right now.

Oh don't be so dramatic...you of all people should know that Sony is doing this to try and convince a few folks out there that a few dead pixels doesn't mean it's "the end of the world," and that means a few less units Sony will have to replace - it doesn't mean Sony WON'T replace the units.

Fact is, they rushed production, they are short on supply, they aren't going to take them back (even in Japan, they were telling people they would be waiting 8 weeks to get their unit replaced - maybe I could hold my $250 for the next 8 weeks while you fix my sh*t heh ... ). This is standard short stocking like Sony did with the PS2. Yeah, I'd go with the "Piss off Customer" approach. When DSes were in short supply, there was never an issue like that. The manual wasn't saying "kthxnothx" - they were saying "Call the number on your unit, and we'll take care of you".

Fact is, Sony fixed most of the problems with the Japan PSP's before the US launch, PSP's aren't in short supply if you look hard enough, and they can be replaced if there's a problem (either through the store you bought it from or through Sony). And am I the only one that remembers the same "dead pixel routine" with the DS? People bought DS's, people found dead pixels, Nintendo didn't respond until enough people yelled about it. Anyone? Bueller?

The dead pixel problems was there at the launch of the DS too, search the forum about how I opened up mine in front of the clerks at EB when i got mine.

That's what I have told all of my friends to do when they go pick up their PSP's and guess what.....NO DEAD PIXELS.

sony announces that they will fix dead pixels for free:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/0...ws_6121092.html

Well what do you know. Didn't I mention something about this earlier? Once again - Didn't we see this a few months ago with the Nintendo DS?

I find it funny that all of the PSP dead pixel complaints have been found primarily on the net. Why? I went back to the EB Games that I bought my PSP from and of the 20+ units that were sold yesterday, there have been no returns, no phone calls, no ANYTHING about dead pixels. At a nearby GameStop, only one had been returned and it wasn't because of dead pixels. Sorry, but something smells a little FanBoyish here.

they arent flying off the shelves, and there was no free publicity of kids beating up old women in front of wal mart to get a PSP, so the launch has been tepid.

So the fact that there's a few PSP's still available for purchase and there's a good variety of games to choose from makes the launch "tepid"? How would you describe the DS launch then, where there were plenty of units available and a poor selection of games?

but its quickly becoming evident that the PSP is the phantom menace of game systems

Huh?!?! How did you come to this conclusion exactly? The "powerful" 3DO launched with ZERO games - THAT would be a "Phantom Menace" launch. The dual-processor, faux 64-bit, "do the math" Atari Jaguar launched and folks quicky discovered that the system's capabilities certainly were NOT anywhere near "64-bit" - THAT would be a "Phantom Menace" launch.

chrisbid

03-25-2005, 11:31 PM

Huh?!?! How did you come to this conclusion exactly? The "powerful" 3DO launched with ZERO games - THAT would be a "Phantom Menace" launch. The dual-processor, faux 64-bit, "do the math" Atari Jaguar launched and folks quicky discovered that the system's capabilities certainly were NOT anywhere near "64-bit" - THAT would be a "Phantom Menace" launch.

simple, everyone thought before the phantom menace came out that it would be the greatest movie of all time, simply based on studio hype and the pedigree of previous star wars movies. once it was released, the fans all got in line and told themselves over and over that they loved it, but six months later, anti-buyer's remorse faded away and people saw the film for the garbage it was.

the jaguar and 3DO did not have this pedigree. atari was considered a joke while panasonic never had their sights set on a mainstream audience. neither machine were ever considered to be contenders at any point in their development or sales cycle.

many retailers thought that the PSP would sell out on the first day like the PS2, and even sony anticipated this demand by forcing retailers to buy x number of games per system shipped. This is why some retailers forced you to buy a game with a bundle, to pass along this cost to the consumers. sony and retailers were both banking on shortages and extra demand to stick it to the early adapters, and this time around they simply didn't show up.

im not a ds fan either. i think both systems have potential, but there is a lot of work to be done if either nintendo or sony want the market penetration of Gameboy Advance.

Lento

03-26-2005, 02:41 AM

I find it funny that all of the PSP dead pixel complaints have been found primarily on the net. Why? I went back to the EB Games that I bought my PSP from and of the 20+ units that were sold yesterday, there have been no returns, no phone calls, no ANYTHING about dead pixels. At a nearby GameStop, only one had been returned and it wasn't because of dead pixels. Sorry, but something smells a little FanBoyish here.

FanBoyish? This doesn't have anything to do with FanBoyism. It's about not accepting flaws and defects in the products you buy. I guess Sony had no choice on this one though and I'm glad they made the right choice. Now if they only lowered the price and put some good games out, things might get interesting.

Chewchilla

03-26-2005, 05:10 AM

simple, everyone thought before the phantom menace came out that it would be the greatest movie of all time, simply based on studio hype and the pedigree of previous star wars movies. once it was released, the fans all got in line and told themselves over and over that they loved it, but six months later, anti-buyer's remorse faded away and people saw the film for the garbage it was.

Seeing how Nintendo has had a firm hold on the portable gaming market since 1989, I don't think the PSP has been introduced as the "GREATEST PORTABLE GAMING DEVICE OF ALL TIME." And since this is Sony's first venture into the portable gaming market, there are a lot of people out there that are a little worried about dropping $250 for this system. Well guess what? Most of those folks I have talked to, including myself (don't worry, I try not to talk to myself too much), find the PSP to be worth the money spent on it. So you might want to actually wait six months before pulling out the "Phantom Menace" argument.

the jaguar and 3DO did not have this pedigree. atari was considered a joke while panasonic never had their sights set on a mainstream audience. neither machine were ever considered to be contenders at any point in their development or sales cycle.

Atari was the "old kid on the block," Panasonic was the "new kid on the block," there were a lot of people looking forward to these systems and they actually IMMEDIATELY failed to live up to the hype. And that's what we're talking about here right? The hype?

many retailers thought that the PSP would sell out on the first day like the PS2, and even sony anticipated this demand by forcing retailers to buy x number of games per system shipped. This is why some retailers forced you to buy a game with a bundle, to pass along this cost to the consumers. sony and retailers were both banking on shortages and extra demand to stick it to the early adapters, and this time around they simply didn't show up.

Seeing how all of the initial preorders were covered, it looks to me like Sony met the PSP demand and shipped a few extra units for those that were in the "not too sure" category. And the only folks "sticking it" to customers were the retailers. There were more stores out there selling the Sony $250 bundle than the "game(s) + PSP" bundles - again, you just had to know where to go. And there were plenty of Nintendo DS's on the shelves when it launched, yet not as many folks yelled "FAILURE!" Hmmmm.....

FanBoyish? This doesn't have anything to do with FanBoyism. It's about not accepting flaws and defects in the products you buy. I guess Sony had no choice on this one though and I'm glad they made the right choice. Now if they only lowered the price and put some good games out, things might get interesting.

Yeah, the OVER-reaction to the PSP dead pixel problem appears FanBoyish in nature. Look, if ONE dead pixel on your PSP REALLY bugs you then get it replaced....fine. But when this happend with the DS people got upset and complained, and Nintendo eventually responded with a replacement program. The complaints about the PSP dead pixels have sounded like somebody took a dump on some of the PSP's that shipped, or that the PSP killed a close family member upon power-on - it's been a little CRAZY. But it looks like it made Sony respond to the problem faster than Nintendo did with the DS, so maybe it's all good in the end.

chrisbid

03-26-2005, 06:03 AM

Seeing how Nintendo has had a firm hold on the portable gaming market since 1989, I don't think the PSP has been introduced as the "GREATEST PORTABLE GAMING DEVICE OF ALL TIME." And since this is Sony's first venture into the portable gaming market, there are a lot of people out there that are a little worried about dropping $250 for this system. Well guess what? Most of those folks I have talked to, including myself (don't worry, I try not to talk to myself too much), find the PSP to be worth the money spent on it. So you might want to actually wait six months before pulling out the "Phantom Menace" argument.

thats fine, i probably wont even have to wait six months, most people havent given the DS that much time to bury it

Atari was the "old kid on the block," Panasonic was the "new kid on the block," there were a lot of people looking forward to these systems and they actually IMMEDIATELY failed to live up to the hype. And that's what we're talking about here right? The hype?

atari was DEAD in 1993/1994. when i first read about the jaguar i laughed, it was a joke before it was released. the key word in my entire description is pedigree, the 2600 was indeed great, but the 5200, 7800, and XE systems were all duds, and atari's reputation in the console market was more of a vegetable than terry shaivo.

the 3DO was 700 dollars when it was launched, and most of its titles could also be found on PCs. There wasn't much of a market for a console that expensive, at least the neo geo had a niche of arcade games unique to the system. there was no pedigree whatsoever, but it did give companies like EA a head start on developing titles for Playstation and Saturn (when it appeared there was still going to be a PSX/Saturn war)

Seeing how all of the initial preorders were covered, it looks to me like Sony met the PSP demand and shipped a few extra units for those that were in the "not too sure" category. And the only folks "sticking it" to customers were the retailers. There were more stores out there selling the Sony $250 bundle than the "game(s) + PSP" bundles - again, you just had to know where to go. And there were plenty of Nintendo DS's on the shelves when it launched, yet not as many folks yelled "FAILURE!" Hmmmm.....

wow, did sony pay you to write that release? you can pretend and deny all you want, but there are some sweaty executives trying to explain to their bosses why the first batch of machines have not sold out

sony pulls the same crap atari and nintendo did when they were on top of the market. they shovel their crap on retailers. if you are a store or distributor and you want to stock PSPs on launch, you have to buy X number of games with each unit shipped. rather than eat the cost of the extra games, some stores decide to pass this cost on to consumers. besides, the units will sell out in hours anyway, right? ooops

Yeah, the OVER-reaction to the PSP dead pixel problem appears FanBoyish in nature. Look, if ONE dead pixel on your PSP REALLY bugs you then get it replaced....fine. But when this happend with the DS people got upset and complained, and Nintendo eventually responded with a replacement program. The complaints about the PSP dead pixels have sounded like somebody took a dump on some of the PSP's that shipped, or that the PSP killed a close family member upon power-on - it's been a little CRAZY. But it looks like it made Sony respond to the problem faster than Nintendo did with the DS, so maybe it's all good in the end.

on the contrary, your complaints about people that complain sound like fanboyism... or anti-buyer's remorse. you spent your 250 dollars, and you will tell yourself over and over again that it was money well spent.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56749

my feelings are that people shouldve expected this out of sony. in their brief history in the video game business has produced countless shoddy consoles. the numbers are inflated even more on first production runs.

im not anti-sony or psp, im just a realist

i will be more interested in buying a psp once the price goes down a bit, i see half a dozen original must-play games, and when i see the fruits of homebrew games and emulators running on it. it has potential, but i do not buy potential, i buy results.

chrisbid

03-26-2005, 06:32 AM

tepid launch or no?

http://psp.ign.com/articles/599/599156p1.html

Chewchilla

03-26-2005, 02:06 PM

atari was DEAD in 1993/1994. when i first read about the jaguar i laughed, it was a joke before it was released. the key word in my entire description is pedigree, the 2600 was indeed great, but the 5200, 7800, and XE systems were all duds, and atari's reputation in the console market was more of a vegetable than terry shaivo.

So how exactly was Sony supposed to push the PSP seeing how they have no history as far as portable gaming goes? "Hey folks! Buy the PSP because we made the great PS2 console!" I don't think that would have worked. I do think that the PSP lives-up to the "hype" that was generated for it. Do I think the system's a failure because it didn't COMPLETELY sellout on launch? No - that would be ridiculous.

the 3DO was 700 dollars when it was launched, and most of its titles could also be found on PCs. There wasn't much of a market for a console that expensive, at least the neo geo had a niche of arcade games unique to the system. there was no pedigree whatsoever....

Again, I remmber the 3DO launch and there were ZERO games to buy. It was expensive like the NeoGeo, but people still wanted it. The NeoGeo faired a little better at launch because there were games to buy. Panasonic had to push the 3DO like crazy because this was their first venture into console gaming and they needed to sell as many units as possible at launch to keep moving forward. Well, no games showed up on launch day and those folks that preordered systems got seriously burned. THAT'S a failed launch.

wow, did sony pay you to write that release? you can pretend and deny all you want, but there are some sweaty executives trying to explain to their bosses why the first batch of machines have not sold out

I'm just telling you how I see it - I'm not a Sony fanboy. Do YOU work for Sony? Have you talked to those sweaty-palmed executives recently?

sony pulls the same crap atari and nintendo did when they were on top of the market. they shovel their crap on retailers. if you are a store or distributor and you want to stock PSPs on launch, you have to buy X number of games with each unit shipped. rather than eat the cost of the extra games, some stores decide to pass this cost on to consumers. besides, the units will sell out in hours anyway, right? ooops

Sorry, I just don't think retailers are crying over having a few PSP's on the shelves. So what the PSP didn't completely sellout on launch - it does mean the units WON'T sell the day after launch.

on the contrary, your complaints about people that complain sound like fanboyism... or anti-buyer's remorse. you spent your 250 dollars, and you will tell yourself over and over again that it was money well spent.

I guess I'm not making myself clear here....I don't care if you complain about problems with your PSP, it just seems that people are going a bit overboard with it. And yes, I spent my $250 and I am very happy with my PSP - sorry that bugs you so much. Would it make you feel better if I went out and bought something I didn't want or like?

my feelings are that people shouldve expected this out of sony. in their brief history in the video game business has produced countless shoddy consoles. the numbers are inflated even more on first production runs.

Sony has made faulty consoles....just like Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Panasonic....it will continue on into the next-gen consoles.

i will be more interested in buying a psp once the price goes down a bit, i see half a dozen original must-play games, and when i see the fruits of homebrew games and emulators running on it. it has potential, but i do not buy potential, i buy results.

The price will go down just like with any other system, there's a good number of quality games already, and the homebrew scene has already started. If you buy a PSP when you see the results you are looking for, I hope you enjoy it as much as I have these past few days.

tepid launch or no?
http://psp.ign.com/articles/599/599156p1.html

Sorry, still gonna wait on the official numbers from Sony. But the numbers really don't matter to me - I was interested in the PSP, I did some research on it, I bought it, I have enjoyed it greatly - enough said.

Shane R. Monroe

03-26-2005, 02:30 PM

Hey, right tool for the right job. The PSP doesn't do what I need for my portable gaming tool. The gaming line up to me is pretty much caca - sans the puzzler and the Norrath looking game. When it gets a C64 or Amiga emulator, call me. I'll happily plop down $250 for that. Otherwise, I have a PS2, a great portable with games I like, and a portable DVD player ... I'm good to go.

I'm glad some people are liking the PSP. So far, I can't see getting one.

DaMenace

03-26-2005, 06:20 PM

I'll check it out once Sony starts selling a value pack with games instead of a lame memory stick, etc.
I'd sure like the price for those games to come down!
Once I do though I'll prolly pick up Twisted Metal and Wipeout, I'm really into those franchise games.. little else interests me at the moment

jamcat

03-26-2005, 06:39 PM

On the subject of the PSP, I love the letters section over at GameSpot where a couple gamers bitch that GameSpot is biased towards the PSP and against the DS. I just love how GameSpot is always getting flack for being biased one way or another towards a given system. Makes for funny reading.

yuckymucky

03-26-2005, 06:46 PM

Haha those are always the best letters and posts. Some people think that just because some company likes something they review everything else crap. I lover reading that crap.

kinglumby

03-28-2005, 07:09 PM

Did anyone see this article from IGN?

http://psp.ign.com/articles/599/599156p1.html

Yes I know it's from IGN but still worth a look. And there is also another one on the whole Dead Pixel issue:

http://psp.ign.com/articles/599/599185p1.html

I bought a DS last week in Australia and mine had one bright pixel - green on the top screen. You could only notice it when you were playing GBA games because you have a black border. Sent it back to K-Mart and they exchanged it no problems. I'm sure they will probably do the same for the PSP when it finally arrived here in 2010 (Sony tends to be a little late getting to Australasia)!

As for the PSP not selling well....I guess you had these types of articles when the DS was launched but then again the pressure is all on Sony to deliver. Nintendo owns the market so Sony has to get in. I'm sure the same was true when the DS launched.....you could get one if you bother to look.

For example in Australia the DS has been the best selling console release ever we sold a whopping........wait for it....... 20,000 over the first 3 days. Anyway I had no problems picking one up the next week.

I think the real point is what type of games are going to be on the PSP vs the DS.

Shane R. Monroe

03-28-2005, 07:43 PM

Here is what I love the mostest (so my kid used to say):

Sony is currently developing policies to deal with the issue. When we talked with Sony Computer Entertainment's public relations representative about the issue, we were told that Sony Customer Service is taking calls and will deal with the issues case by case as they come up. A call to that Customer Service line (a yellow Technical Support leaflet is included inside the PSP packaging), a customer service representative we spoke with about the issue explained that the current policy is that they are asking customers to play with and use their PSP for a week to see if the dead pixels disappear, as they sometimes do. If, at that time, the pixels are not firing or cycling, customers can mail their PSP in for an exchange. As of now, the policy is that customers will incur the cost of shipping and returning, and it was not known how much that would be.

"wait a week" is priceless. That dead pixel might fix itself ... or, you'll get too attached to be without it for 6-8 weeks ... or you might just give up. Same concept as the "rebate". I read somewhere that only about 40% (or less) of rebates ever get mailed in. CASH in the pocket of the manufacturer. Probably won't get fixed unless its in a particular box mailed a particular way (like hard drives).

I'm glad stores are taking them back.

Demolition Man

03-28-2005, 10:22 PM

Its almost like as if Sony wants people to NOT buy the PSP on purpose with that mentality. Talk about brain dead management in charge of Sony.

chrisbid

03-29-2005, 05:03 AM

I'm glad stores are taking them back.

i think stores are more or less required by law to take back new merchandise. they may not have to refund money, but at least allow the option of an exchange.

this is just a broken facet of how the modern economy works, the only people that get the service everyone deserves, are the people that bitch the most. having worked on a service line, and in retail, this causes an awful lot of stress on the people that have absolutely nothing to do with the problem in the first place. there is a reason why csr's are so often jaded.

Shane R. Monroe

03-29-2005, 06:18 AM

You got that right, my friend...

Demolition Man

03-29-2005, 11:24 AM

this is just a broken facet of how the modern economy works, the only people that get the service everyone deserves, are the people that bitch the most. having worked on a service line, and in retail, this causes an awful lot of stress on the people that have absolutely nothing to do with the problem in the first place. there is a reason why csr's are so often jaded.

Well said.

Chewchilla

03-31-2005, 12:58 PM

Launch info starts rolling-in and the predictions begin....

Analysts divided on PSP launch
Sales of Sony's new portable underwhelms one analyst, while another predicts eventual victory over Nintendo in the handheld space.

Just one week after the PSP launch, the industry is already writing its reviews.

Yesterday, in an interview with GameSpot News, Electronics Boutique CEO Jeff Griffiths called the PSP a "revolutionary product that is going to greatly expand the portable business," as well as the entire game sector.

This morning, two analysts chimed in with their own thoughts. One memo from American Technology Research's PJ McNealy gave his assessment of the launch, which he describes in cautious terms. "[The] PSP [launch] has been solid but not spectacular."

"To put this in perspective," McNealy added, "while the PSP has been launched amidst much hype, the expected financial impact on the video game publishers for the March quarter has been minimal and, in our opinion, is more of a case of headline risk than actual material impact right now."

While not a definitive measure of success, McNealy pegs his assessment on ATR's own channel check of stories. "Our checks over the past two days of 150 US retailers have shown that the PSP is sold out in only 50 (33 percent) of those stores."

"We are frankly surprised by the early channel and industry checks on sales," McNealy said. He refrained from offering any long-term determination, stating, "We are hesitant to draw any macro-level conclusions about the success or failure of the PSP."

McNealy is calling sell-through at 4.5 to 5.5 million units in North America.

UBS analyst Mike Wallace, on the other hand, looks at the long-term impact of the PSP in his lengthy Video Game Industry Overview released today. He sees sales of the unit reaching 4 million or higher for the full calendar year, depending on allocation of supply between North America and Europe.

That said, Wallace does see potential snags in the mostly positive outlook. "Given the tight supply now, the probable redirection of units toward Europe for its expected June launch, and the problems Sony had last year with PS2 production, we will not assume that Sony can produce as many units as people expect."

How do the analysts see sales after the early hype subsides? Wallace picks the Sony portable as the winner in the portable space. "We think the PSP will be the dominant handheld gaming device in two years."

Griffiths, too, sees a big win for Sony. After a "great start," Griffiths sees Sony up to its old tricks of evangelizing into an older and more monied market. "Prior to [the 1995 PlaySation launch], it was primarily a console-driven business for kids and teens."

With the original PlayStation--which had to go up against the then-dominant N64 from Nintendo--Sony brought more mature-themed software to market and generally targeted older teens and 20-somethings, vastly changing the video game playing field. Griffiths sees Sony doing the same with the PSP.

"Sony's come out and said their target customer for PSP is 18- to 34-year-olds. And that's really what they did with the original PlayStation. That's what grew console business from being a $2 to $3 billion a year business in the US to what it is today. I think we have the same opportunity here with portable."

Even McNealy saw a bit of sun peek through the cloudy launch, conceding that "the PSP launch, while not the blowout event expected, will be considered successful, as retailers continue to sell through existing inventory levels."

By Curt Feldman -- GameSpot
POSTED: 03/31/05 12:21 PM PST

yuckymucky

03-31-2005, 02:01 PM

With the original PlayStation--which had to go up against the then-dominant N64 from Nintendo--Sony brought more mature-themed software to market and generally targeted older teens and 20-somethings, vastly changing the video game playing field. Griffiths sees Sony doing the same with the PSP.

I'm pretty sure that the PlayStation was out before the N64, in fact I am pretty certain that it was out a year before.

Chewchilla

03-31-2005, 02:12 PM

I'm pretty sure that the PlayStation was out before the N64, in fact I am pretty certain that it was out a year before.

Did Griffiths screw-up or was he just making the most logical console choice (the PS1 vs SNES would be a little silly) in regards to Sony going up against Nintendo? Who knows....but yes, the PlayStation hit North America on 09/09/95 and the Nintendo 64 arrived on 09/29/96.

jamcat

03-31-2005, 02:14 PM

How do the analysts see sales after the early hype subsides? Wallace picks the Sony portable as the winner in the portable space. "We think the PSP will be the dominant handheld gaming device in two years."

Griffiths, too, sees a big win for Sony. After a "great start," Griffiths sees Sony up to its old tricks of evangelizing into an older and more monied market. "Prior to [the 1995 PlaySation launch], it was primarily a console-driven business for kids and teens."

With the original PlayStation--which had to go up against the then-dominant N64 from Nintendo--Sony brought more mature-themed software to market and generally targeted older teens and 20-somethings, vastly changing the video game playing field. Griffiths sees Sony doing the same with the PSP.

"Sony's come out and said their target customer for PSP is 18- to 34-year-olds. And that's really what they did with the original PlayStation. That's what grew console business from being a $2 to $3 billion a year business in the US to what it is today. I think we have the same opportunity here with portable."

How can Sony fail? It's doing in the handheld market the same thing it did in the console market.

batwinky

03-31-2005, 02:15 PM

nintendo 64: 1 October -96 USA
Sony Playstation: USA SCPH-1001 September 9, 1995

B_Rik_Schitthaus

03-31-2005, 02:40 PM

your right batwinky,

With the original PlayStation--which had to go up against the then-dominant N64 from Nintendo--Sony brought more mature-themed software to market and generally targeted older teens and 20-somethings, vastly changing the video game playing field. Griffiths sees Sony doing the same with the PSP.

this kind of ignorant inaccuracy really annoys me :mad:

batwinky

03-31-2005, 03:31 PM

your right batwinky,

this kind of ignorant inaccuracy really annoys me :mad:

i am sitting at work and looked it up during a break, took me 5 minutes so it really isn't hard work when your factchecking

RetroZelda88

04-23-2005, 05:22 AM

And I said in the other thread ...

Sony has lost their minds.

For $250 (which is at least $50 more than a decent portable DVD player will cost you) they should be KISSING YOUR ASS, graciously replacing dead units. Even Microsoft addressed the scratching of discs by the Xbox.

So damn crazy ... imagine what its like at Best Buy ... at the register ... they wanting probably $70 for the "extended warranty" ... its like pulling the One Armed Bandit .. Pay $70 for nothing, or will you get that dead pixel replaced... no whammies no whammies NO WHAMMIES ... STOP!

ive been to gamestop this week and have seen 2 PSP's with screen scratched considered as USED. Selling for $199 USED. I mean camon' $200 for a USED system. I'd buy a GBA instead. People are trading them in because if the screen gets a nick on it, it is considered unmint condition.

Ive already seen 9 USED PSP games and people are trading them back.
The quality is just bad.

Chewchilla

04-24-2005, 12:18 AM

ive been to gamestop this week and have seen 2 PSP's with screen scratched considered as USED. Selling for $199 USED. I mean camon' $200 for a USED system.

Nothing new there....GameStop has always sold their used merchandise $5 less than the new price.

I'd buy a GBA instead. People are trading them in because if the screen gets a nick on it, it is considered unmint condition.

Anybody that buys a portable system and actually uses it as a portable system, and then expects said system to remain in "mint" condition shouldn't be into "gaming-on-the-go" in the first place. Now if you are a collector - you should never take a "new" system out of the box after purchase, and therefore should never know if the unit is defective in any way. Then after 20 years or so, you can sell it on Ebay "as is" with no refunds given - just in case there IS a microscopic scratch on the unit. :rolleyes:

Ive already seen 9 USED PSP games and people are trading them back.
The quality is just bad.

And what about the stack of used Nintendo DS systems behind the counter? Is the quality bad with the Nintendo DS as well? No - A lot of folks traded in their DS's and/or other systems to get a PSP or something else. People buy videogames and people trade them in - it's the circle of videogame life.

Demolition Man

04-24-2005, 01:01 AM

Chewchilla

04-24-2005, 02:17 AM

But Chew... is it the "circle of videogame life" when the system hasn't been on the market for even three freakin months yet? If so then dayom that "circle of videogame life" needs a kick in the deevolution ass and fast.

Well let's see....The DS wasn't even out three months and folks were trading in Super Mario 64 DS - and that was pretty much the ONLY game people were walking out of the store with when the DS launched. And when it became clear that game releases would be few and far between, some DS's were traded in as well.

I was in a GameStop today and saw a used God of War for sale - that's the most popular game on the PS2 right now and it's been out for a month! And I'm sure we will see a lot of used copies of Doom 3 for the Xbox hit store shelves soon, once folks realize that it's a basic first-person shooter with really pretty graphics - yay.

So yeah, a lot of gamers today quickly "dump" their videogame items before the trade-in values drop too low. Finish a game once - trade it in for another. Junior hasn't turned on his system in a month - trade it in for one he will play. This ongoing videogame "rental" is very attractive to some consumers because they think they are spending less cash on new videogame merchandise, even though they are getting raped on trade-in values and used videogame prices.

RetroZelda88

04-24-2005, 05:02 AM

I still collect video games no matter if the label is ripped off or new.
At my local gamestop, the cashier is already angry at me for buying their old gameboy games. I was told why I don't trade games. I just tell em I collect them. Some of the games behind the Glass case are actually great games. The old GB games I picked up for $2.99 are good games especially Penguin Wars. I play Penguin Wars everyday now. To me that's fun. But to segway out, I think there is a group or a person who probably collects USED PSP UMD disks for the fun of it. For Nostalgia?

Is collecting video games fun? Not to many people. But for me. Hey I'm having fun because some of those games you collect will not appear in store shelves any longer. Might as well get them.

I don't see any USED N-Gage software or units on my gamestop.
Whats that all about? I don't have an N-Gage anyway, so I don't know what
the cart looks like.

Chewchilla

04-24-2005, 02:38 PM

I don't see any USED N-Gage software or units on my gamestop. Whats that all about? I don't have an N-Gage anyway, so I don't know what the cart looks like.

Nobody bought the N-Gage in the first place - that's why. ;)

sci

04-24-2005, 08:55 PM

The N-GAGE isnt accounted for in the charts anymore.. Which is hilarious considering how cell phone gaming is in such a huge boom right now. There's a lot of money to be done there.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

07-30-2005, 07:15 AM

The new argos catalog has just come out in the UK, now im not sure if you guys in the states have argos stores but in the UK they are massive, easily one of the biggest retail outlets in the UK. Now as this is thier brand spanking new catalog it of course has the PSP but the features list includes Plays DVD's and Takes digital photographs and its portable (no really) well done for confusing people further, dear me. The price is £179.99 ($316) with games at £30 ($52)

Oh and one other thing with it is thier advertising the Memory stick DUO with a 512mb version and then the price 'From' £29.99 then you look over to the price list of the memory and a 512mb version is £59.99 ($105)

Edit: i just saw this on the argos website its unrelated but its still funny,
Hey parents too lazy to parent when it comes to your kids video games let this (http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=3801&productId=153355&clickfrom=name) handy device do it for you.

esteban

08-03-2005, 01:55 PM

Edit: i just saw this on the argos website its unrelated but its still funny,
Hey parents to lazy to parent when it comes to your kids video game let this (http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=3801&productId=153355&clickfrom=name) handy device do it for you.Oh, that is wonderful. As a kid I would have despised this thing... but as a parent, well, damn, I don't know. I could see myself buying it! Sad, I know...

Shane R. Monroe

08-03-2005, 02:14 PM

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I can't get enough ... PS2 Protector ...

Why don't we just stop having children all together? Sounds like a better plan. No children, no need to parent ... kthx.

Flare

08-03-2005, 02:35 PM

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I can't get enough ... PS2 Protector ...

Why don't we just stop having children all together? Sounds like a better plan. No children, no need to parent ... kthx.
I'm with you... which reminds me.

Last weekend in McAllen TX; I went to the local Gamestop store inside the shopping mall. This is the place where all mexicans go to buy games.

I overheard some parents which were buying a title for their 8 year old kid. The kid was like "Hey mom! I want that game with the cute squirrel" (Conker: Live and Reloaded), and the parents were like "Of course honey, but choose well, you are only getting one game, are you sure you don't want this one instead? This looks like a better game" (Brothers in Arms).

I mean, can these guys be any more irresponsible? Do they not care to read the "M" rating which is right there on the box???

Even worse, the store jockey being right there didn't say a word, guess he cares more about selling that game than recommending them about it not being appropiate for the little kid.

I tell you, I really wanted to interrupt their conversation and politely tell them about the rating system and how those games should not be played by minors, but I felt kind of awkward and in the end I didn't... so well, maybe in a way I'm also responsible for the kid finally walking away with that "cute squirrel" game... pity.

What would you have done in a similar situation? Do you tell or not?

esteban

08-03-2005, 04:00 PM

I'm with you... which reminds me.

Last weekend in McAllen TX; I went to the local Gamestop store inside the shopping mall. This is the place where all mexicans go to buy games.

I overheard some parents which were buying a title for their 8 year old kid. The kid was like "Hey mom! I want that game with the cute squirrel" (Conker: Live and Reloaded), and the parents were like "Of course honey, but choose well, you are only getting one game, are you sure you don't want this one instead? This looks like a better game" (Brothers in Arms).

I mean, can these guys be any more irresponsible? Do they not care to read the "M" rating which is right there on the box???

Even worse, the store jockey being right there didn't say a word, guess he cares more about selling that game than recommending them about it not being appropiate for the little kid.

I tell you, I really wanted to interrupt their conversation and politely tell them about the rating system and how those games should not be played by minors, but I felt kind of awkward and in the end I didn't... so well, maybe in a way I'm also responsible for the kid finally walking away with that "cute squirrel" game... pity.

What would you have done in a similar situation? Do you tell or not?Oh, I've been in this situation -- kind of. I help friends / relatives buy games as gifts for their kids.

Here's the deal (it's an old but sad story): kids want good games, but adults -- though well-intentioned -- invariably buy the crappiest games (i.e. I have a hunch that clueless adults buy a disproportionate number of licensed titles, since adults recognize these licenses and thus are more likely to have some "familiarity" with them). END RESULT: kids are unhappy.

Alternate story: kids want games that aren't appropriate for their age... and adults buy them for them. END RESULT: parents, if they monitor the game, are unhappy. My friend's Grandpa recently bought GTA: SA for his 6-year-old grandson! He didn't even look at the cover art! Sad but true.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

08-29-2005, 11:06 AM

Interesting PSP article,

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3142637

Still, industry analysts were optimistic. "We think the PSP will be the dominant handheld gaming device in two years,"

UK launch this thursday.

Shane R. Monroe

08-29-2005, 11:14 AM

Heh, I like the wrap up:

However, there are a lot of PSP owners out there wondering why they forked out $250 for a gaming device that they've actually used more for watching movies or listening to music rather than playing games. Looks like it'll take a little more than promises and technology to really get handheld gaming out of the ghetto.

Good article. I'm sure I'm covering it for B&B this month.

Darksol

08-29-2005, 11:34 AM

Demolition Man

08-29-2005, 12:23 PM

But Shane! It has a BIGGER SCREEN! NOTHING ELSE MATTERS! BIGGER SCREEN!!!

<GenGimmie> AND ITS AN IPOD!!!! AND IT PLAYS MOVIES!!! </GenGimmie>

nukinetix

08-29-2005, 12:44 PM

But Shane! It has a BIGGER SCREEN! NOTHING ELSE MATTERS! BIGGER SCREEN!!!

<GenGimmie> AND ITS AN IPOD!!!! AND IT PLAYS MOVIES!!! </GenGimmie>
To add insult (wasting money on the wrong product) to injury (being a complete dumbass and a gengimmie) ... if big screen, movies and what not is what you're after why not go and get yourself this: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000140055553/

WiFi, Bluetooth, 1MP camera, QWERTY keyboard, 640x480 touch screen, 520MHz cpu, 96MB ROM, 128MB RAM, SD memory card

Flare

08-29-2005, 12:47 PM

To add insult (wasting money on the wrong product) to injury (being a complete dumbass and a gengimmie) ... if big screen, movies and what not is what you're after why not go and get yourself this: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000140055553/

WiFi, Bluetooth, 1MP camera, QWERTY keyboard, 640x480 touch screen, 520MHz cpu, 96MB ROM, 128MB RAM, SD memory card

<GenGimmie> guaah! yeah, but does it play Halo... and Grand theft Auto... guaaah! </GenGimmie>

nukinetix

08-29-2005, 01:30 PM

Dunno about GTA ... but with these specs Halo could well be a possibility (esp. being a M$ product ;) )

And anyway, who said this had much to do with games .. this is about BIG (massive) screens, movies, mp3s, and all that, so you can now do all these nice things with your, erm, "phone" (which by the way beats the crap out of your PSP in terms of specs) and then feel free to use the PSP for .. erm... playing games only :p

Yeah like I'm gonna spend $250++ JUST to play the same old games on a PSP when its "added value" (screen, movies, mp3, etc) is actually a step back from my .. phone, of all things :eek:

p.s. In case it's still not clear enough: IF YOU WANNA BE A GENGIMME AT LEAST DO IT PROPERLY, YOU DUMBASS :) (there, I got it off my chest)

Shane R. Monroe

08-29-2005, 01:47 PM

p.s. In case it's still not clear enough: IF YOU WANNA BE A GENGIMME AT LEAST DO IT PROPERLY, YOU DUMBASS :) (there, I got it off my chest)
Dayom .. I just spit popcorn all over the place!

Darksol

08-29-2005, 01:59 PM

Dayom .. I just spit popcorn all over the place!

First of all. Watch the popcorn action in the afternoon.
Between popcorn and soda, we have probably made your desk a mess :)

Also, I am not sure if we want to educate GenGimme anymore. They are already pretty dumb as is.

Nukie, that camera phone you showed was an abomination and GenGimme likes flash and sizzle so maybe you need to do a little more research. A Nokia N-Gage might have been more acceptable.

nukinetix

08-29-2005, 03:54 PM

that camera phone you showed was an abomination and GenGimme likes flash and sizzle so maybe you need to do a little more research. A Nokia N-Gage might have been more acceptable.
I assure you it's quite unlikely you would have the same opinion after spending 10 minutes with it - it's got more flash and sizzle than the PSP and bringing the N-Gage in this is just plain silly - NO comparison mate.

And as for large, ultra bright, super crisp, 640x480 screens ... or watching movies on them ... well ...

http://www.mobilegazette.com/images/other/htc-universal.jpg

I am not sure if we want to educate GenGimme anymore. They are already pretty dumb as is.
I don't think any members of that species (species subzero .. it's an IQ thing) frequent this forum, anyway ...

B_Rik_Schitthaus

09-01-2005, 06:42 AM

PSP UK launch day article,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4203804.stm

Most of what was in the article was mirrored in what was said by a friend who works in GAME, all of thier allocation of PSP's have been pre ordered, plus there was alot of foot traffic with PSP shaped bags. There were some great scene's 'what I have to buy this aswell' , and alot of parents with thier children 'how much was it then' 'HOW MUCH?' funny stuff apart from the guy who looked like he was about to beat his kid for lying.

But if ever there was a market where the PSP will fit in it's the UK, People over here go mad for this sort of stuff so expect strong sales figures, damn sad.

Five million PSPs have been shipped by Sony since its launch in Japan. Sony says it expects 13m to be shipped up to March 2006

Really?

Another more general BBC article about the handheld face off.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4156250.stm

Edit: Oh and I almost forgot, around the lauch of a new platform the news always tries to get in on it and almost always gets it wrong or says somthing incredibly stupid, Channel 5 came up with a humdinger 'So it plays music, films, games and can store photographs, however its lacking one very important feature it hasn't got the abillity to make phone calls'

Flare

09-01-2005, 07:08 AM

Who the heck came up with the thread title "PSP Flying Off Store Shelves"?... oh, that was Jamcat...

We just heard on the August 05 show that the DS is kicking the PSP's ass...

Demolition Man

09-01-2005, 10:26 PM

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 08:42 AM

I have a debate with a GenGimmie coworker who brags about great his PSP is and flings around words like "its an iPod and dvd player and oh it plays games on it too." Sad to say I can't even get him to look at the DS since "Nintendo hasn't done anything original in years."

Funny... he says they haven't done anything original yet they have done more original, innovative, and unique titles for the DS in one week than the PSP has done since launch.

(That game I'm refering to is Nintendogs)

It's not OK for him to be enthusiastic about his PSP? Maybe a Nintendo DS is simply not for him? Does he HAVE to be converted? Hell, if I listened to most people about the N-Gage QD, I should have never touched the thing, even with the proverbial 10 foot pole. Hey, it's not the BEST, but I'm enjoying it at the same time as the PSP and DS, and can ACTUALLY see certain people getting ENJOYMENT from it. Go figure.

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 09:43 AM

Bill, you know people are sheep that believe what they are told ... whether they PERSONALLY agree or not, they bite into the media stream and accept it. Once you drop $300 into a PSP, what are you GOING to say? Its sucks? No one wants to look like a sucker ...

I sympathize with Demolition Man ... those of us that aren't enchanted by the media want to make it our job to at least INFORM people of alternatives and help them see "the matrix" around them.

Now, should this guy have said "Hey, the DS just doesn't have the type of gaming I'm into and since I have no DVDs, the PSP is really making it easy for me to take movies on the go" or SOMETHING that showed he wasn't sold a PSP by the chump working the counter at the local Best Buy that can't even SPELL DS let alone sell one properly - I'd be more inclined to say "Different strokes for different folks". In this case, it appears to be pure brainwashing to me.

But what the hell do I know? :)

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 09:52 AM

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 10:25 AM

But that also makes the assumption that someone can't actually be HAPPY with the PSP as a game machine. That's ludicrous. Again, if you want to play console games on the go, the PSP will make you VERY happy. If you want something different, then the DS will make you VERY happy. Sure, people are BRAND brainwashed all the time - it's why Sony is so dominant with the PlayStation branding/line and Nintendo fans have to bleed for their systems. However, to say that one is more valid than another is unfair.

I think you misunderstood. I don't believe THIS GUY is happy with his purchase. I think that people that have NO desire above standard console game rehashing on the go can REALLY and TRULY appreciate the PSP. I even think that people that KNEW it would be console rehashes and bought it as a portable media player can ALSO be happy with it.

When people start rattling off what it replaces it sounds like a desperate plea for acceptance in their OWN head - they aren't convincing US they like it - they are convincing themselves that they didn't f'up and pay $300 for something they had higher hopes for.

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 10:42 AM

$300 for the PSP, $170 for the DS, what's the difference, really? You can throw $$$ figures around, but they're two different systems that happen to be portable. Initially we all thought they'd be competing against each other, but frankly, now, they're not. Two different audiences, two different types of games, two different types of experiences. To say that someone is not happy with the PSP SOLELY as a game machine (frankly, that's all I'm using it for right now - I've only dabbled in the media stuff) is like saying that no one can be happy with a GBA solely as a game machine. There IS value in having a portable console that does other stuff, just like there's value in a portable system with a touch screen.

In the end though, I don't really care one way or the other as what we all say has nominal effect on sales or general opinion, I just wanted to make the point that it seems all too easy for some of us to judge what others SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be enjoying and more importantly, why...

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 10:50 AM

I equate what Sony is doing with the PSP with promising someone a car, only to find out that its REALLY a refrigerator (damn good one at that) but it DOUBLES as a car.

Even the dreadful Electronic Gaming Monthly (who are the biggest Generation Gimmie console sluts on the planet) dissed on the PSP this month ... I snapped a screen ...

I know if I'd been an early adopter (which by the way, I actually tried, but the The Boss(tm) said $300 was out of line so I didn't get one - now I'm glad I did) expecting a game system, to have the manufacturer of it saying "We expect to sell tons of movies on this .. more than games" ... I'd be pissed ...

That's all I'm saying.

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 10:54 AM

Oh, no one is saying that they didn't drop the ball in the software department - they have - and it's certainly up to the individual to determine if their investment of $250 in a PSP is worth it, but there IS a good range of software and more on the way. It won't match the "originality" of the DS titles, but some people simply don't want to play those types of games. Fair enough.

As for Sony PR, they are probably more tiresome than even Nintendo and Microsoft PR these days. They seem to have turrets and like to send mixed messages almost daily.

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 10:58 AM

I think the whole thing is a scream ... EVERYONE bitched about the lack of DS titles at launch, and even post launch people are STILL bitching about PSP software. Life is funny.

I'll also go on record as saying that if I could get a PSP and a GB card for $199, I'd be there in a heartbeat. Esp. a hacked one for emulation. Eventually it will come down to that, and I'll get in on it.

That being said, what does a full MPG4 movie ripped come out to sizewise? I'm talking full quality style. Xvid movies with AC3 comes out to 700MB roughly ... what about a PSP movie on the card? If a GB card could hold 3 full quality movies, I could see that being useful. Of course, I'm lame ... I'd have my favorite FG, Robot Chicken, Drawn together etc. on there so I could show them to friends at work ... weak ... :)

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 11:06 AM

I'm not a big fan of memory cards swaps on my camera (512MB), PDA (1GB), N-Gage (64MB - if I get certain things working I'll spring for a 1GB) or Sony PSP these days, so I'm very thoughtful about what I put into them and always try to get the biggest card possible initially, then be done with it. I got one of the good 1 GB cards for $99 for the PSP, though they can probably be had for a bit cheaper now. Frankly, when they go FAR past 1GB for about the same price (say 4GB for around $100), that's when they'll be truly useful as media machines. Who knows, perhaps PSP2 will have a mini-hard drive. Goodness knows they're putting the darn things into cell phones.

And just as a side note, frankly it wasn't until the recent 2.0 firmware update for the PSP that it became a really good multimedia device without a UMD movie in it. It was rather lacking in features prior to that update. The fact that it's finally also a portable wi-fi Web browser is kind of neat as well, but input is of course an issue...

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 11:16 AM

I'm a mixed bag about the DS going online. I guarentee there will be a web browser out for the thing like .. THE NEXT DAY .. officially or unofficially ... and with a simulated keyboard and touch screen, it could be the second coming. After all, even the C64 lowres screen ended up with a decent 80 column mode ... and there is always mobile content feeds from most places. I'm not totally sure I want the convergence on the DS tho ... While I don't think it would dilute the system too much (certainly not as much as the play yen) I'm still iffy about it.

Interesting to know about the 2.0 upgrade affecting the media capabilities. I've been basically told that it ruled the roost on the original firmware. I'd be curious to know the differences ...

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 11:20 AM

http://www.us.playstation.com/psp.aspx?id=SoftwareUpdate

Network

* An Internet browser has been added. More

Video

* 4:3 Screen Mode has been added (for video saved on Memory Stick Duo™ media). More
* Go To feature has been added (for UMD™VIDEO and UMD™MUSIC). More
* A-B Repeat feature has been added (for UMD™VIDEO, UMD™MUSIC and video saved on Memory Stick Duo™ media). More
* Audio options have been added (for video saved on Memory Stick Duo™ media).
* MP4 (AVC) has been added as a playable file format (for video saved on Memory Stick Duo™ media).

Music

* The combination of SonicStage™ version 3.2 (or later) and PSP™ system software 2.00 (or later) has made it possible for music files in ATRAC3 plus™ format to be transferred to a Memory Stick PRO Duo™.
* MP4 (the audio codec for MP4 format audio files is MPEG-4 AAC) and WAV (Linear PCM) have been added as playable file formats (for music saved on Memory Stick Duo™ media).

Photo

* Wallpaper feature has been added. More
* Image transfer feature has been added. More
* TIFF, GIF, PNG and BMP have been added as viewable file formats.

Settings

* Korean has been added as a system language in [System Settings]. More
* [Character Set] has been added in [System Settings]. More
* [Theme Settings] has been added. More
* [Internet Browser Start Control] has been added as a security mode in [Security Settings]. More
* WPA-PSK (TKIP) has been added as a security mode in [Network Settings].
* Web address shortcut feature has been added as an input mode for the on-screen

Demolition Man

09-02-2005, 02:35 PM

Bill, you know people are sheep that believe what they are told ... whether they PERSONALLY agree or not, they bite into the media stream and accept it. Once you drop $300 into a PSP, what are you GOING to say? Its sucks? No one wants to look like a sucker ...

Much like the few people who even want to admit supporting, say... that doomed Circuit City DIVX format. :p

I sympathize with Demolition Man ... those of us that aren't enchanted by the media want to make it our job to at least INFORM people of alternatives and help them see "the matrix" around them.

Now, should this guy have said "Hey, the DS just doesn't have the type of gaming I'm into and since I have no DVDs, the PSP is really making it easy for me to take movies on the go" or SOMETHING that showed he wasn't sold a PSP by the chump working the counter at the local Best Buy that can't even SPELL DS let alone sell one properly - I'd be more inclined to say "Different strokes for different folks". In this case, it appears to be pure brainwashing to me.

But what the hell do I know? :)

Funny you say "the chump working the counter at the local Best Buy" when in fact I work for one of their rivals Circuit City (yeah I know I just knocked them for DIVX which was a dumb idea to begin with, but its all in the past now).

The thing that scares me the most is the fact that people who are brainwashed like the coworker I'm talking about just won't give alternatives like the DS a chance to see that indeed there is a better emphasis on gaming with the DS (or even GBA for that matter). One thing is for sure and that is Nintendo does need to get that media player cart out for the DS. It might get at least a few of these brainwashed people to actually take a look at the DS then they might actually see that the DS has a stronger game lineup. :D

(But then again, most of here know that already)

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 02:53 PM

Again, Brian, just because YOU like the games better on the DS, doesn't mean someone else will. Frankly, I can FULLY see why someone might like say "Wipeout Fusion" on the PSP more than something like "Kirby Canvas Curse" on the DS. Or, for a same basic genre comparison, something like "Death Jr." over "Yoshi Touch N' Go". Or what about sports games, where the PSP generally excels? Whatever. The point is, the PSP DOES have games, and GOOD games, fun games, they're just not relatively unique like some of the titles in the DS collection. Let's face it, not everyone wants to play games with a stylus or blowing into a microphone, right?

Also, for me personally, I actually like the analog nub on the PSP, and yes, it's tired, but I really like that darn screen. There are strengths and weaknesses for both, audiences for both.

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 02:56 PM

As long as the audiences are well informed and make a logical choice - then that's cool. I just don't see that happening ...

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 02:58 PM

Like you say, when has as the audiences every made an informed and logical choice? Even we - who take our gaming seriously and basically make an ongoing study of the subject - make a bad choice now and again. Frankly, if they enjoy the purchase, I can't see how its wrong, even if there's a better option out there.

nukinetix

09-02-2005, 03:03 PM

I guess what shane is trying to say is that, it is possible (and even likely) that in some cases people would effectively convince themselves that a game (or a console) is cool simply because 1) his friends say so, 2) the magazines say so, 3) he paid a huge amount of $$$ so it HAS to be good right, he can't have been sucked into it or too dumb to understand what the others mean when they say "it's just the coolest thing man"

That's the problem - that these people (are they the majority or just a small minority? who knows) might have been otherwise able to "find themselves" and enjoy the DS or something else for that matter (hey, I love my GP32, and will soon be a proud owner of a GPX2 ... ) if they had not been held captive to public opinion and media brainwashing.

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 03:11 PM

Well, yeah .. that and the concept that the PSP was billed as a GAME MACHINE ... and now, Sony is basically saying (what we have said all along I might point out) "... oh and it plays games TOO". Had I early adopted, expecting Sony to fully back this as a game machine, I'd be pissed - but -- since I spent $300 -- what am I SUPPOSED to say???

Demolition Man

09-02-2005, 03:15 PM

Also, for me personally, I actually like the analog nub on the PSP, and yes, it's tired, but I really like that darn screen. There are strengths and weaknesses for both, audiences for both.

You know I am glad that the PSP is around to at least add pressure on Nintendo to start putting out stronger titles on their own portable systems along with more choice in the market. I am just flat out not impressed with the game lineup I'm seeing on the PSP period. Now as far as a portable media player then yeah its decent for that I will admit (tho I don't care much for all the propritory crap that is so typical of Sony).

Now if the PSP had games that I would care about, and the price on the system was just right (around $150 is my sweet spot) then I would have no problem breaking down and buying a PSP. But I'm not seeing anything game wise that even grabs my attention, and as of right now the system is way overpriced.

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 04:25 PM

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 05:05 PM

I never refer to the PSP without at least a $50 extra SD card with it. Realism factor. You know was well as I do, 32MB ain't big enough ... The DS, on the other hand, is $129 ready to use ... from a practical standpoint.

Price is still double ... even if you look at it your way ... and the DS was NEVER $179 ... it launched at $149 ... I know - I bought it opening day :)

Bill_Loguidice

09-02-2005, 05:12 PM

Oops, right, $179 was a made up number...

Shane R. Monroe

09-02-2005, 05:14 PM

I'll give you the REQUIRED $5 purchase on the DS for Screen protectors .. should ship with them :)

B_Rik_Schitthaus

09-03-2005, 02:01 AM

I'll give you the REQUIRED $5 purchase on the DS for Screen protectors .. should ship with them :)

Ah screen protectors, a great extra apart from the little bit of hair that always seems to get trapped under there :p

Channel 4 news report on the PSP (http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=638) Now I havn't got a clue what this UK based report is like (it wouldn't load up for me) but it might be interesting.

According to some reports it has been selling out across the UK. Out of pure interest I added up the cost in dollars, based on GAME prices and using XE.com

PSP console = $331.60

2 games = $129 rounded up

512mb memory stick duo = $79.20

Conversion software = $46.00

Total = $585.80

Ok fair enough I havn't used the special deals that are around (mainly because I couldn't find them) and the 512mb memory and conversion software isn't essential (although for some people it might be)

davykelly

09-04-2005, 03:51 PM

I don't know about the PSP any more..too big for an MP3 player, too small for a movie player, OK for games - not too comfortable though..and the drive is too damn fiddly.

I can see the attraction for savvy people crunching films onto the Sony format and pissing around with memory cards, connectors , drivers, firmware and such but the average knuckle scraper who Sony is targeting/attracting? Are they going to buy DVDs and PSP format films? Are they going to buy their PS2 games over again?

Of course they are ! It is too depressing. The upshot is that its getting Nintendo to work harder to produce new stuff instead of ports of 15-20 year old (admittedly great) platformers.

nukinetix

09-06-2005, 04:51 AM

Hmm .. rrrrright!

The Sony PlayStation Portable (PSP) has broken records to become the fastest-selling games console of all time in the UK, according to figures.

More than 185,000 were sold in its first four days on UK shops, say official Chart-Track figures.

Rival handheld, the Nintendo DS, sold 87,000 in its launch week in March.

Sony is aiming to appeal to more than just gamers with the PSP. It is a multimedia device which plays films, music, and browses the web wirelessly.

The gadget went on sale in Europe on 1 September, nine months after hit Japanese stores and six months after the US.

Sony expects a million PSPs to be sold in the UK before Christmas.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

09-06-2005, 05:28 AM

Thanks for the info nukinetix,

Uk multiformat top 40 (http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110015)

8 PSP games in the top 10, 20 in the top 40.

No DS games in the top 40, shoot me please :p

Shane R. Monroe

09-06-2005, 07:19 AM

Launch week, you can expect that. Call me in a month - we'll see where the games are ...

Don't forget, DS's biggest games haven't even HIT the UK, like Meteos, Nintendogs, etc.

These figures mean nothing :)

B_Rik_Schitthaus

09-06-2005, 07:38 AM

Yeah your right, but its a hell of an impact and I cetainly think it could continue. As I have mentioned in another post september is a great month for the DS in the UK so we'll see.

davykelly

09-06-2005, 08:33 AM

Just saw PSP films for sale....What mug is going to pay £20 for a film (which I assume has no special features?) to play ONLY on their PSP? Am I missing something here? Am I so out of touch?

Shane R. Monroe

09-06-2005, 09:20 AM

Apparently some of them do have extras ...

But ... it still doesn't make sense ... at all ...

JamesJoell

09-06-2005, 09:39 AM

Been around the shops in both Portsmouth and Southampton in England and none of them are exactly flying off the shelves, they seem to have plenty of stock and it seems to be stuttering to shift. When I went into Game a few families were considering buying one but because of the price they opted to save for the Playstation 3 and were considering buying a GBA SP.

When i went into blockbusters a kid had Wipeout Pure for one day and he wanted to change it because it was too slow and apparantly nothing new from its counterparts.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

09-06-2005, 09:40 AM

PSP UMD movie sales close to game sales (http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050831_104644.html)

Unbelievable, no wonder sony are now marketing it as a movie player that 'also plays games'

Shane R. Monroe

09-06-2005, 10:16 AM

Add another notch to my belt plz ... kthx

JamesJoell

09-06-2005, 01:23 PM

Shane-O gets it right again.

Flare

09-06-2005, 01:24 PM

We'll get back at him when someone creates a C64 emulator on the PSP and he rushes to buy one. :)

Shane R. Monroe

09-06-2005, 01:28 PM

I'm sure looking at that GPx2 ... That might be my portable emulation system ...

JamesJoell

09-06-2005, 03:04 PM

I'll stick to my GamePark 32 thanks...
or the GPX2... My boyfriends buying me one for my birthday...can't wait to put my Automation Atari ST ROMS on there, i'll be sorted for life.

kinglumby

09-06-2005, 04:31 PM

The PSP has just been released in Australia and they have a massive marketing campaign for it. Nintendo Aus put out one add that I have seen so far on the mainstream media where as Sony Aus has put stuff everywhere and every single catolog from an electrical retailer has the PSP on the front cover. It's quite amazing.

There are plenty of PSPs available but the same was true for the DS.

What is interesting is that they are really pushing the movies. They occupy the same shelves as the games in EB stores.

According to the press the DS was the fasting selling console ever so far, but we've had no reports about the DS yet.

Galaga will never die

09-06-2005, 09:02 PM

i went into blockbusters a kid had Wipeout Pure for one day and he wanted to change it because it was too slow and apparantly nothing new from its counterparts.

sorry but when did generation gimme kids become credible sources in this forum?

actually for the hardcore fans Wipeout Pure is nothing short of the pinnacle of the entire series, fast, packed full of new content... finally something to dethrone portable STUN Runner on my Lynx II ;) and I say that without any blasphemy whatsoever - it's true.

And here's a tip for folks - it's hugely better when played together with the homebrew hack to unlock the full speed setting of the PSP hardware (Sony are currently running all games massively underclocked until better battery technology is found)

Shane R. Monroe

09-06-2005, 09:10 PM

And here's a tip for folks - it's hugely better when played together with the homebrew hack to unlock the full speed setting of the PSP hardware (Sony are currently running all games massively underclocked until better battery technology is found)

BAHAHAHAHA ... I know I just didn't read that ... wow, another reason to NOT own a PSP

JamesJoell

09-07-2005, 01:36 AM

Sorry but this kid wasn't gen gimmie. I saw him in Gamestation buying Mario/Duck hunt. I happen to agree with him, Wipeout may aswell just dig its own grave and be done with it, I stopped buying the series after wipeout 3 and I still think 2097 is by far the best version. Personally I have found games such as F-ZERO X, Quantum Redshift & Extreme G far better versions of the space racer series, Extreme G being more frantic with weapons, Quantum Redshift having a completly different level skin to each level, so nothing looks the same. F-ZERO X just for its arcade pick up and play atmosphere and 100 competitors. How you can seriously say that Wipeout still lives up to expectations is beyond me, yes it was a ground breaking game that started to mop up the debt sony had when they first released the PSX but you can't keep using that as an excuse to give props to wipeout..the series burnt out two games ago and besides who wants to see sequals all the time? Apart from F-ZERO AX on the Nintendo Revolution, if anyones played the arcade game they will be absolutely stunned by how fast and how beautiful everything is.

sorry but when did generation gimme kids become credible sources in this forum?

actually for the hardcore fans Wipeout Pure is nothing short of the pinnacle of the entire series, fast, packed full of new content... finally something to dethrone portable STUN Runner on my Lynx II ;) and I say that without any blasphemy whatsoever - it's true.

And here's a tip for folks - it's hugely better when played together with the homebrew hack to unlock the full speed setting of the PSP hardware (Sony are currently running all games massively underclocked until better battery technology is found)

meu2

09-07-2005, 04:29 AM

I can really see the PSP becoming very successful in Europe and certainly here in Ireland. It doesn’t need games, it has the name “Playstation” and that’s enough for most people. People were queuing for hours before the launch and the event was covered on the late news.

My girlfriend had the radio on one of Dublin’s largest stations, 104FM, this morning and during the celebrity ‘news’ they started talking about the PSP. Apparently some famous footballers (soccer) are getting Harrods (famous London store) to create gold and diamond encrusted PSP’s worth nearly €20K. One of the presenters showed some level on intelligence by complaining that the PSP played a proprietary medium “Who wants to buy their movies twice?”. He then had an ingenious idea: instead of buying a PSP why don’t people buy a Sony GameBoy, which is cheaper, and a portable DVD player, which has a bigger screen. While it was nice to see the media actually pick up on some of the silly aspects of the PSP it says a lot that they referred to the Gameboy as a Sony product several times. Here in Ireland (at least the south) Nintendo is virtually an after thought in the eyes of retailers. The largest retail outlet, “GAME”, often has as much space for DVD’s as it does for all Nintendo products combined. I suppose this can have the nice side effect that whenever I am in the stores I usually have the entire Nintendo section to myself, whereas the rest of the store is packed!

Of course I am sure the DS/GBA/GC section will be reduced again to make space for UMD movies. Perhaps they should rename the store to something more apt. :rolleyes:

davykelly

09-07-2005, 08:22 AM

Like many people, I can see the initial attraction of the PSP - it really is like a device you would have seen in a sci-fi film a few years ago. This is especially so if you see it as a convergant device and something that can be fiddled with and configured to do different things with (as opposed to actually doing anything seemingly :)).

I can see the attraction of the music angle (although a dedicated mp3 player is a hell of a lot cheaper and convenient) but you don't need a screen for that (the DS could be configured for that) but UMD films are pushing it too far..really I see the initial novelty (I have watched a Simpsons episode on one) - but what is the point? Can't you wait to get home and watch a film in comfort on a cheaper, superior format on a superior screen?

What I can see with UMD films are anal collectors wanting the DVD and UMD versions side-by-side on their shelf (similar to some NeoGeo collectors who buy the UK Colour Pocket versions of games to sit beside their big brothers in their cute little clam-shell cases!). Hardly a mass market though.

Having said that ... I would like one - but I'm into games more and the quirky DS content interests me more (although Lumines and Mercury look great) and what about Tate modes for 2D shooters? The PSP would be great for that....

Flare

09-07-2005, 08:33 AM

...and what about Tate modes for 2D shooters? The PSP would be great for that....
At first I didn't know what the heck Tate mode was... until I googled it

Look at this:
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0505/game050529a.shtml

JamesJoell

09-07-2005, 08:47 AM

Personally the UMD concept was just Playstations answer to an all in one medium rather than trying to take over your livingroom space they are now trying to take over your life, I am surprised they didn't buy out a mobile phone company and added a phone to it aswell. Watch out...don't give them ideas they'll end up buying the Nokia N-GAGE patent off them. The problem is if the PSP releases enough unique games that dont appear on the PS2 i'll end up buying one because I have to have new games and old games as I'm a collector, i just hope there isnt so it can save me £200 odd quid

davykelly

09-07-2005, 12:40 PM

At first I didn't know what the heck Tate mode was... until I googled it

Look at this:
http://www.the-magicbox.com/0505/game050529a.shtml

Looks great - but the control might be a painful after a while - hard to say..

I have played some games (Galactic Attack aka Layer section being one) on my Saturn in Tate ("Ta-Tay") mode (it was an old spare TV) and its great - many shooters really open up - not convinced it is safe though...

Flare

09-07-2005, 12:58 PM

And what does "tate" stand for? Acronym?

JamesJoell

09-07-2005, 01:59 PM

Tilt and Turn Experience?

Galaga will never die

09-07-2005, 04:10 PM

BAHAHAHAHA ... I know I just didn't read that ... wow, another reason to NOT own a PSP

Yep, it's true. PSP hardware runs: CPU @ 333MHz, Bus @ 166MHz. Meanwhile Sony have enforced compulsory underclocking of every game released so far to CPU @ 222MHz, Bus @ 111MHz. The difference with running Wipeout Pure at official underclocked speed, and at hacked full speed, is like night and day (almost double the framerate at times) but battery life suffers. Presumably Sony did not want the bad PR associated with extremely low battery life figures at launch.

Chewchilla

09-07-2005, 04:13 PM

And what does "tate" stand for? Acronym?

Some folks that aren't comfortable playing the Lynx version of Klax or the PSP version of Star Soldier in this mode might think it stands for "Twist And Torture the Enduser," but it just means the game is displayed vertically rather than horizontally.

davykelly

09-11-2005, 11:35 AM

And what does "tate" stand for? Acronym?

Many people think is for roTATE but the name has Japanese origins as far as I can remember (its the phonetic equivalent to "vertical" in Japanese).

Danny

09-11-2005, 01:12 PM

TATE is japanese for Stand Up/Get Up.

keith

09-12-2005, 05:03 AM

PSP would be cool if they had a long life battery.
I hate Playstation games because they require a lot of time.
So, sitting under a tree relaxing hacking goblins and such all day would be fun.

For the price of a PSP I can buy a cheap subnotebook and do much more.

Im just pissed because Monkey Target isnt in the new Monkey Ball DS.
Ill be cranky about this for months ;)

Shane R. Monroe

09-12-2005, 06:53 AM

I love Monkey Target....

Danny

09-12-2005, 03:42 PM

I love monkey ball dx lol... all the goodness of monkey ball 1 & 2 with extras but without any of the annoying unlocking ;)

B_Rik_Schitthaus

09-13-2005, 12:48 AM

Shane R. Monroe

09-13-2005, 06:41 AM

Bahahahahahahahahaahhaha

Flare

09-13-2005, 06:51 AM

Galaga will never die

09-14-2005, 10:30 PM

What do you do if your a film studio and you've got a stinker on your hands, it bombed at the box office and no one is going to buy it on DVD,

I know stick the film on a UMD and sell it for $39.99 with a cut down special edition of Wipeout Pure on the same disc,

Stealth/Wipeout pure combo disc (http://psp.gamezone.com/news/09_09_05_06_11PM.htm) it also includes the 2.0 firmware upgrade.

I actually just watched Stealth last night, and even though I'm a fan of the subject matter and even the director in this case... the cast and the script just sucked, ruining the whole thing.

example (paraphrased but accurate):

Pilot 1 (looking at A.I. computer chip of advanced plane): Where's that music coming from?

Computer repair person: Oh, that's the plane A.I. He likes downloading music off the internet and listening to it.

Pilot 1: How much music?

Computer repair person: All of it.

Pilot 1 (to A.I. computer chip of advanced plane): Sounds like you're going to be in trouble with the Recording Industry Association, ho ho ho.

*Pilot and Computer repair person laugh and scene cuts away*

nukinetix

09-15-2005, 05:50 AM

PSP got competition? http://www.odd-i.co.kr/

Flare

09-15-2005, 06:30 AM

PSP got competition? http://www.odd-i.co.kr/
That looks super cool!

Great to see that there will more devices like the defunct Zodiac.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

11-05-2005, 03:18 AM

Bill_Loguidice

11-05-2005, 06:33 AM

I've just seen Grand theft Auto Liberty city stories selling for £39.99 ($69.97) thats £5 more than any other PSP game. Now if I was a PSP owner I would already be resenting the fact that I have to pay £35 for a game but this would send me spare. How dare they. Not only that there getting away with it.

Here in the US, EA games and select other third party titles have always been $50 US on the PSP, with first party stuff at $40 US. $50 US for Liberty City Stories is quite fair compared to the prices of other software on the system. If you don't like it, don't pay it. Frankly, you don't even own a PSP, so why let it bother you? The game pricing is the same as it on the PS2, whether that's fair or not is a different story, but you are getting the equivalent game experience for the most part.

Bill_Loguidice

11-05-2005, 06:37 AM

That looks super cool!

Great to see that there will more devices like the defunct Zodiac.

I've finally fully set up my Zodiac 2. I like the controls a lot (real analog nub) and the two SD card slots (one is also an SDIO). The Palm OS will take some getting used to since I've been a Pocket PC guy for the longest time, but it seems pretty nice. As for the games... Well, let's say it's not quite up to first generation PS1 software quality - and yes - most of the first party games are 3D. However, I DO have a few promising games among the low end 3D stuff that I'm interested in trying, including a 4X space strategy game and a Dugeon Master/Eye of the Beholder type RPG. Still, as a PDA it's very nice and probably as good as a stand alone Palm will roughly get without a camera (and after selling out), and it does run almost all Palm software. The games are just a cheap diversion, handy when you don't have a better system handy.

sci

11-06-2005, 04:48 PM

Shane R. Monroe

11-06-2005, 05:17 PM

$50 sounds offensive for any game for any console. Period.

The concept that ONE SINGLE GAME costs 1/4+ the cost of the unit - that is offensive to me. I'm not sure how people can feel differently.

sci

11-06-2005, 05:47 PM

That's how gaming is now. It's just the way it is.

Shane R. Monroe

11-06-2005, 06:03 PM

That's how gaming has always been ... and its always been creepy. The DS is the FIRST time that gaming has been REASONABLY priced (hell man, Wario Twisted for the GBA is like $40 new).

yuckymucky

11-06-2005, 07:18 PM

50$ might sound offensive for a DS or GBA grade title, but for PSP software, it doesnt feel so bad. Titles like Ridge Racer 6, Wipeout and GTA:LCS could have come out for PS2 and they wouldnt feel any different than other console games.

Unlike Pac Pix, Emergency Room and other DS titles would all feel like budget barbain titles. Even 'high production values' title like Castlevania would be a hard sell at full price on consoles.

That may be the dumbest thing I have ever read here. I know you have become a hardcore PSP fanboy but damn man. Console or handheld games shouldn't cost $50, a game is a game.

EDIT: It may not be the dumbest but that statement is 100% fanboy statement.

WorknMan

11-06-2005, 07:42 PM

I have an Xbox with 4 games. I haven't paid more than $20 for any of them. Personally, about $30 is my limit for games. If I have to, I'll wait a year or so and pick it up used.

IMHO, $40 is way too much to pay for a game. $50 is just insane, ESPECIALLY on portables. Assuming I had a portable, I'd probably never pay more than $25 for a game.

Darksol

11-06-2005, 09:15 PM

You have to admit inflation on game prices has been around 0 as long as I can actively remember (1985-Present Day). If games cost as much in the past and people's money was worth less then its no suprise there are more consumers for it now. I knew a few people who put out for a complete set of Neo-Geo carts at $200 / pop but they were all adults (disposable income) and I was a kid.

Bill_Loguidice

11-06-2005, 10:58 PM

Gaming has and probably always will be kind of expensive. These are and always have been productions in every sense of the word. Given that as far back as the 70's, individual games (cartridges, not just computer software) could list for as much as $59.95 (what is that in today's dollars? Well over $100?) and that trend has continued through to the present day, given inflation, it's also kind of reasonable. Every medium is probably set artificially high to a degree as well (remember when cassettes were cheaper than CD's, even when CD's cost less to manufacture? Or that DVD's cost more than video cassettes, even though those are cheaper to manufacture?). It's all what the market will bear combined with the need for businesses to *gasp*, make a profit so they can stay in business and produce more.

So no, it's not being a "fan boy" to say that $40 for a DS game or $50 for a PSP is "acceptable". If you can get value out it, what's the difference? If I could somehow justify a $70 game or more, hell, I'd pay it (there's an Apple II game in my collection, for instance, that must weigh around 5 pounds with all the documentation and extras that came in its oversized box ("Star Saga: One"). If not, then I DON'T pay it and maybe others will too and then publishers will have to adjust their prices. Obviously the current prices are more than acceptable, since gaming is hotter now than it's ever been. If it weren't, we might be heading for that third crash that's still not anywhere close...

Shane R. Monroe

11-07-2005, 06:02 AM

Bill_Loguidice

11-07-2005, 06:34 AM

Fine, let's throw out development costs too while we're at it. Then it really seems like a "rip off", doesn't it? If anything, hardware and software prices have DROPPED as technology has increased ten-fold. It doesn't mean that Super Mario Sunshine is a better game than Pitfall, it just means that it takes more to develop these games than one person hacking away for months at a time.

Shane R. Monroe

11-07-2005, 07:13 AM

Hey, I didn't ASK for a $2M intro movie. Tell you what, leave that out of my copy. You can call it MOOD SETTING all you want - I'll wager HALF the people didn't even watch it ONE TIME - and if its so damn important to the game, why do most people never watch it again (if they even watch it ONCE) and if its so damn important to the game and its story, why am I allowed to skip it (most of the time)?

Wasteful development cost rising isn't the fault of the gamer.

These goofy rising development costs are NOT being used to create better games - they are being used to create better looking versions of THE SAME GAME. So yeah ... I'll keep throwing down.

Video games want to be movies so GODDAMN BAD they are even making the SAME MISTAKES that the film industry has and does - and we see how WELL THAT is paying off with year after year of decreased viewership. Van Helsing - $160M with over 1000 digital effect shots ... US Gross was $120M. No proftit. The original SAW - $1.2M to make, $18M US Gross.

Its been proven time and time and time again that BUDGET and EFFECTS cannot make a crappy movie (or game) profitable. You think Katamari Damacy was a $5M game?

So, don't cite rising developer costs to me.

yuckymucky

11-07-2005, 07:16 AM

So no, it's not being a "fan boy" to say that $40 for a DS game or $50 for a PSP is "acceptable". If you can get value out it, what's the difference?

No, that is not really what I said. I said it is being a fan boy saying the quality of games that the PSP has vs. the quality of the DS games justifies paying more for them. If that were the case Neo Geo AES games would have to be the golden shrine of games, which they are not.

Personal I don't really care about the cost anymore, I used to think that it was just way too much but now that I pay $50 to fill my gas tank a game seems cheap.

Bill_Loguidice

11-07-2005, 07:25 AM

So how much do you think Katamari did cost to make? $1 million? $500,000? How long? How many man hours? Surely it was exponentially more in all areas than creating say, War Games on ColecoVision, no? Katamari was probably one of the cheaper games to produce, sure, but it was also released at $20, first run.

The cost is not in the intro movies or cut scenes in most cases, it's the huge development teams. It's the artists, musicians, etc. It's not necessarily a better way of doing it than the single person of yesteryear, but the fact of the matter is it DOES cost more. So let's see, we've gone from one or two person development teams to development teams with dozens to hundreds of individuals and - throwing inflation out - pay the same price for the game and it doesn't reflect the value of the product? That doesn't make sense to me.

Again, it's simple business. You charge what the market will bear and how well you can eek a profit. At some point it would be too much for people to pay, but that point is obviously not right now.

Bill_Loguidice

11-07-2005, 07:28 AM

No, that is not really what I said. I said it is being a fan boy saying the quality of games that the PSP has vs. the quality of the DS games justifies paying more for them. If that were the case Neo Geo AES games would have to be the golden shrine of games, which they are not.

Personal I don't really care about the cost anymore, I used to think that it was just way too much but now that I pay $50 to fill my gas tank a game seems cheap.

Well, production-wise, PSP games certainly cost more to produce, so I think the $10 premium is relatively fair. It doesn't mean that the games are any better or worse, it just means you can understand where the money went.

As for Neo Geo games, there were several reasons why they cost what they did, but a lot of it did have to do with the production cost of the silicon/memory in each cartridge and the niche nature of the system (which makes it nice these days when I can get the older cartridges for less than $30). After all, it's more expensive to produce 30,000 games than 100,000.

nukinetix

11-07-2005, 07:51 AM

Shane R. Monroe

11-07-2005, 07:58 AM

Nuki - I'll deal with you in the other thread :) ... I just know I don't have time to set things down right at the moment.

There are PHYSICAL limitations to technologically old hardware that do NOT involve 'better looking' blits or 'higher res' textures.

Don't strive to make a better LOOKING game. Just strive to make a better game - and after that, then worry about upgrading the blits and the textures and making the audio 7.1 EX.

More later.

nukinetix

11-07-2005, 08:55 AM

We agree. That's what I said: If you look back now, Amiga games did not offer significantly improved gameplay (especially initially) compared to the speccy games we already had - the main and most obvious difference was in how many colors, sprites, samples, etc we had to pay 3 times the price for!

Sure, we all collected our jaws from the floor, but in at least 80% of the cases that had everything to do with the sensory impact of the more advanced technology than with pure gameplay. In many cases all it took for us to be convinced to make the move was a single multicolor highres static image, or an awesome 4 channel sampled music.

For the most part Amiga games were graphics and sound first, and new innovative gameplay second - not the other way around. And we loved it, enough to be willing to pay 30 bucks for a game (whereas a speccy game of equivalent pure gameplay quality only cost 10).

As I said, I do clearly remember this same phrase being used back then: "These goofy rising development costs are NOT being used to create better games - they are being used to create better looking versions of THE SAME GAME."

yuckymucky

11-07-2005, 08:58 AM

Well, production-wise, PSP games certainly cost more to produce, so I think the $10 premium is relatively fair. It doesn't mean that the games are any better or worse, it just means you can understand where the money went.

That I can understand, but saying you are paying $10 more for a game of better quality just becuase it is on the PSP I can not. I have played quite a few PSP games and I just don't see the greater quality there. Some games are better some are worse, it is just the way the game industry is.

sci

11-07-2005, 11:41 AM

Here is a screenshot of the new Need for Speed game for DS
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/307/927346_20051104_screen001.jpg

Now, the same game, but for the PSP
http://pspmedia.ign.com/psp/image/article/654/654486/need-for-speed-most-wanted-5-1-0-20050928033235656.jpg

It's the same exact game. The same one. I own a DS and a PSP. I think the 5-10$ difference for the PSP version will be worth it, don't you think? Grand Theft Auto 1 and 2 were a modest hit on the psx and pc. About 200-300k each. The 3D versions sold more than 20 millions combined.

Games are getting more expensive to make, and that's a fact of life. I'm not even bothering with the DS version of Need for Speed simply because it's not a eye catcher. Simply, why would I bother, when I can get the same game but with 10x better graphics? It would be simply stupid in my situation, since I own both handhelds.

The days of small 3 persons teams doing games in a month like in the coleco vision and atari days are simply over. There's always the oddball underground hit like Ikaruga (who was made by 3 guys) and Katamari (who is quite far away from Ikaruga already in total budget price), but notice also how those games sell. They don't sell much because they are not appealing to casual gamers.

Casual gamers want high production values. They want ragdoll physics when they shoot a bad guy, they want intros to Halo in DTS sound, they want high resolution textures.

Also, Titles with high quality graphics but bad gameplay flop, it's as simple as that. Garbage games like Enter The Matrix, who feature high production values but terrible gameplay sold well because it sported a famous franchise behind it.

There is nothing wrong with having awesome graphics and sounds and so on, even at a higher price, simply because ITS WORTH IT. Those physic engines and orchestrated soundtracks aren't free.

Smaller scale productions like Ikaruga, Katamari Damachi and Guitar Heroes will always come out once in a while, but that kind of game will never be mainstream. Never, ever. It's just how the market is. Just like there's hundreds of thousands of McDonalds all over the world, but fine cuisine restaurants still survive, but wont make the owners all that rich.

nukinetix

11-07-2005, 11:59 AM

SCI, the DS was not made for this kind of game - not that it cannot be done on it at all though. Sure the PSP version looks a whole lot better (and if the developers haven't messed it up, it should also play a bit better probably) but that is not indicative of the larger picture, like you allude to, at all.

In addition to that, that's not what a "casual" gamer is defined as. Casual gamers would rather play diner dash, pizza frenzy or plain old tetris than Halo 45 and Doom 126 ... there are at least 10 times as many people out there who are not yet "gamers" in the sense that you define the term, yet they still remain a largely untapped audience.

Graphics alone do not make a good game and most PEOPLE (not male, testosterone laden gamers) do not care about graphics ALL that much, believe me. Graphics CAN conceal a mediocre or even bad game, at least long enough for many of you guys to spend good bucks on it. That is a fact.

To be honest, the way things go, the equivalent to McDonalds will not be Halo 3 but something quite different ... just wait and see.

WorknMan

11-07-2005, 03:03 PM

Games are getting more expensive to make, and that's a fact of life

Maybe, but I'm still not paying $50 for one, ESPECIALLY not on a handheld. And who the hell wants to play Need For Speed yet again? I certainly don't. The sequel whoring for this game is about as bad as Ridge Racer.

Bill_Loguidice

11-07-2005, 03:37 PM

Maybe, but I'm still not paying $50 for one, ESPECIALLY not on a handheld. And who the hell wants to play Need For Speed yet again? I certainly don't. The sequel whoring for this game is about as bad as Ridge Racer.

What do you pay for games, then? $30? $40? I guess we all have our cut-off points. Certainly anywhere between $10 - $50 for a new, non-special edition title seems to have been working just fine in the past five years or so, regardless of platform.

WorknMan

11-07-2005, 06:02 PM

What do you pay for games, then? $30? $40? I guess we all have our cut-off points. Certainly anywhere between $10 - $50 for a new, non-special edition title seems to have been working just fine in the past five years or so, regardless of platform.

In recent years (since I got smart), I have never paid more than $30 for a game. If everyone else did as I did, the most you'd ever see a game sold for is $30. The only reason they sell games for $50 is because they know gullible people will pay that much for 'em.

Bill_Loguidice

11-07-2005, 07:41 PM

Again, waiting to play a game is fine, but what if you don't want to wait? What if by spending that extra $20 gets you six months to a year more play time? Seems like a fair deal to me.

Darksol

11-07-2005, 08:27 PM

Now now .. let's not get kooky here ...

Production costs have dropped as have the production media - so its totally PROPER for 'innate' costs of games to have remained level. To say "It was $50 back then, and still $50, and with inflation that's a good deal". Not really. Small run cartridges cost an ASSLOAD more than LARGE run CDs. It probably costs about 10-20x LESS to physically ship a product now than before. In fact, let's be real. What do games come with now for that $50? A beautiful detailed felt map with little figurines and a hint book? A nice spiral bound set of instructions, maps, and information? No, if you're LUCKY you get a paper disk sleeve.

Less is apparently more to some people.

I partially agree with you on this point. I'll bring up Secret of the Silverblades as an example. Hated the decoder wheel, but loved the wonderful manual with the log entries that had personal entries and maps. I liked that better than in game text or a pdf file. But I think I can part with the figurines. And if I did want them? I would pay more than $50.

WorknMan

11-07-2005, 08:52 PM

Again, waiting to play a game is fine, but what if you don't want to wait?

Then you will be screwed out of $20.

What if by spending that extra $20 gets you six months to a year more play time?

So what, you're saying that in 6 months to a year, the game won't be as much fun?

Seems like a fair deal to me.

Fine by me, so long as you're the wone getting raked over the coals :)

Galaga will never die

11-07-2005, 10:16 PM

I think a game's value is purely subjective, and often has nothing to do with its recommended retail price. Some games I wouldn't pay more than $5 for (GTA San Andreas) but others will happily pay $50 and feel satisfied. While other games (Panzer Dragoon Orta) I would happily pay $200 for, yet I see it in bargain bins for $10 and people still aren't buying it...

Shane R. Monroe

11-08-2005, 05:54 AM

Damn, I just noticed your avatar is Electroplankton. Damn, I'm slow ...

Bill_Loguidice

11-08-2005, 08:11 AM

Then you will be screwed out of $20.

So what, you're saying that in 6 months to a year, the game won't be as much fun?

Fine by me, so long as you're the wone getting raked over the coals :)

Absolutely not. Example, I bought a DVD player in late 1997 for like $400. I could have waited until yesterday to buy one with more features for $20. However, I got the equivalent of roughly eight years of DVD access. Is that worth $380? Yep, to me it was. Now downscale that to a "hot new game". I could be enjoying that game for six months to one year LONGER than if I waited for it to become a budget title. Am I really getting "screwed" out of $20? Absolutely not. I can turn around and say that YOU'RE getting screwed out of six months to one year of EXTRA play time to save a lousy $20. It's all relative.

Of course I'm at the point now myself where I have more games than I'll ever be able to play, so I generally don't buy that "hot new game" anywhere close to full retail, but I do make exceptions, like with pre-ordering Civilization IV Special Edition. It was worth the premium to me to enjoy it NOW.

Darksol

11-08-2005, 08:15 AM

Absolutely not. Example, I bought a DVD player in late 1997 for like $400. I could have waited until yesterday to buy one with more features for $20. However, I got the equivalent of roughly eight years of DVD access. Is that worth $380? Yep, to me it was. Now downscale that to a "hot new game". I could be enjoying that game for six months to one year LONGER than if I waited for it to become a budget title. Am I really getting "screwed" out of $20? Absolutely not. I can turn around and say that YOU'RE getting screwed out of six months to one year of EXTRA play time to save a lousy $20. It's all relative.

Of course I'm at the point now myself where I have more games than I'll ever be able to play, so I generally don't buy that "hot new game" anywhere close to full retail, but I do make exceptions, like with pre-ordering Civilization IV Special Edition. It was worth the premium to me to enjoy it NOW.

Agree 100 percent with you Bill. People tend to forget that time is literally money which is one reason why its so powerful. When I buy anything now I factor when I can use it. If I will use it a month from now, I usually buy it a month from now. If I want it now, I buy it now.

There are also other factors that influence the price:
Market supply
Demand
Sentimentality
Coolness of early adoption

Shane R. Monroe

11-08-2005, 08:30 AM

There is a complete difference between a DVD player (which can play hundreds of hours of movies for eight years) and a video game which likely give you 20 hours of entertainment (that's assuming its a great game).

This sort of behavior PROVES to me that modern gaming isn't about gaming anymore. A game is only as good as the short ass window of time that can be considered superior graphically and technologically. Great gaming has NEVER been about either.

To say a game sharply decreases in value over the SHORT TERM so drastically that its worth 1/3 - 1/2 more on January 1 than on June 1 ... frankly, it rather disgusts me and is testiment to how far from grace gaming has actually fallen.

Darksol

11-08-2005, 08:40 AM

WorknMan

11-08-2005, 09:24 AM

20 hours isn't a huge number for a game that stands the test of time. Try a couple hundred hours for that great game.

Honestly, I can't say I've ever spent a couple hundred hours on any game, be it classic or modern. I think that when you buy a game, the normal senario is that you get a certain amount of hours of gameplay with it. So whether you buy it now or 6 months from now, it's all relative. Let's look at it this way:

Doom 20 is released on Jan 1st. You immediately go out and buy it for $50, while I go out and buy Doom 19 (which was released 6 months ago) for half the cost.

Doom 21 is released on Jun 1st. You immediately go out and buy it for $50, while I go out and buy Doom 20 for half the cost.

Doom 22 comes out next January, and the cycle starts all over again.

So really, we're spending about the same amount of time playing the games, only you're paying twice as much for them as I am, only so you can play them right now. Of course, $20 doesn't amount to much, but when you repeat the process again and again over time, that really adds up. Basically, the game industry is making a killing because you just can't wait to get today's hot new game, which will be in tomorrow's bargain bin.

Zaphod

11-08-2005, 09:45 AM

The cost of technology is always about getting it now. Sure, you could wait, but buy the time it comes down in price there will be something better out. I always think of RAM. When I was first getting more involed in computers RAM was damn expensive. 64MB would cost over $2000. Now they are giving it away with breakfest cereal as Shane likes to say. What I think really matters is what is important to you.

Time is money, and if you need to have it now and can afford it good for you. I used to be that way with a lot of stuff, but much less now. I am currenlty waiting for Star Fox Assault to come down in price, still at $50 after more than 6 months, but I will deffinalty buy the new Zelda as soon as it comes out for full price. I may get a PS2 when the PS3 comes out because it will be damn cheap, but the Revolution is already on my list of things to get ASAP.

I have found it a lot easier recently to hold off on games because I realize I have so many yet to play that I already own, part of the reason I never sell any of them. Same reason why I hate it when people complain that the sequal of games are not like the origonal. Star Fox Adventures, Star Fox Assault. Yah, they are not Star Fox 64, so the F what. If you want Star Fox 64 go play SF64. I still have my copy. Oh, you sold it? Dumb A$$.

Shane R. Monroe

11-08-2005, 10:34 AM

The fact that Gamestop does MILLIONS in business on used game purchases (which is practically CRIMINAL in compensation) shows that people play a game for a VERY short time, sell it, repeat as necessary. Its the only way this market is continuing to work.

I'm beginning to see Worknman's idea about NEED ... You don't NEED music ... You don't NEED a video game the day it comes out.

I don't think I can continue this discussion right now...

Darksol

11-08-2005, 11:01 AM

There is nothing magical about Worknman's definition of NEED. A need implies that the item or concept or process is required or obligatory. You don't need to play games to live. It is really better to say that gaming is a WANT versus a NEED. I want a new game. If people think that gaming is a NEED they need to wake up and smell reality. If you NEEDED a game, that would akin to a dangerous habit such as smoking or drug use.

WorknMan

11-08-2005, 11:03 AM

he cost of technology is always about getting it now. Sure, you could wait, but buy the time it comes down in price there will be something better out. I always think of RAM.

I think RAM is an even worse example than Bill's DVD player analogy. RAM has practical uses - it generally speeds up your computer and makes you more efficient at whatever it is you're doing. Contrast this with movies/games/etc that are strictly for entertainment purposes.

As for DVD players, you know that next-gen is right around the corner. The PS3 will be equipped with Blu-ray and will cost $300+ - I hear that's the cheapest these things will be going for. Personally, I think I'll wait until they get in the $200 price range (the high def players, not the PS3), and even then that's iffy, depending on how bad the DRM is.

'm beginning to see Worknman's idea about NEED ... You don't NEED music ... You don't NEED a video game the day it comes out.

And the funny thing is, some people will willingly pay out the ass for these things and then bitch and whine about how they were FORCED by the entertainment industry to pay that much. Puff, puff, pass, my friends. If you're paying $50+ for these games, then the only person you have to blame for the prices being that high is yourself.
Of course, some people will, instead of paying the inflated prices, just pirate the stuff, then we get inflated prices on products that come pre-loaded with policeware.

nukinetix

11-08-2005, 11:04 AM

This kind of gaming represents a need that is artificial to a large extent. Play, on the other hand, is multifarious and a fundamental component of human mentation.

Just a quick example: The need to get the latest, flashiest, highest-specced toy is quite artificial and needs a dedicated stream of money (marketing) to be maintained. On the other hand, the need to lose yourself in a session of Tetris, Monopoly, The Sims, Meteos, or Nintendogs (imperfect and partial those designs though they may be) has little to do with fashion, fad-ism or capitalism.

I highly recommend reading this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807046817/103-4425397-6689461?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance)

Huizinga's genius is to find the idea of play hiding like a spider in the most unlikely places. The medieval "judicial duel", where justice was done by fighting? Clearly a development of ancient forms of combat - and that combat itself was always highly stylised and ritualised, which show, according to Huizinga, that they themselves were "play" forms. He demonstrates with convincing scholarship that Greek tragic drama and religion were also born from play.

The important thing for the reader to understand is that Huizinga does not think that play is in any way trivial or less than serious. In fact, he argues that play is a wider, more all-embracing concept than seriousness. Because the idea of seriousness excludes play, whereas the idea of play can very well be taken seriously. In the latter portion of his book, he laments the fact that play has been ripped from its organic place at the heart of communities and transferred to commercialized spheres of sport.

Contrary to what another reviewer says here, Huizinga was not writing in the 1950s but in 1938. A time when the old ideals of nobility and chivalry even in war had been exploded. A time when the very idea of play was something worth cherishing, something to attempt to preserve for a more fortunate future.

This is a masterpiece of deeply humanist historical and cultural analysis. If it annoys poststructuralists, well, its the poststructuralists who have the problems.

Darksol

11-08-2005, 11:13 AM

Maybe it hasn't been a problem for me in the past. Except for RPGs where you know they are story driven and they have an ending, I don't buy games that I know I will take back to Gamestop in a week. It has REPLAY value. But having replay value doesn't necessarily mean I won't buy newer titles if they are available. But it does help during a period with a shortage of good titles.

The primary reason for used games is because most people don't have the monetary resources not to sell their old stuff to get new stuff. A lot of the people on this board make enough scratch to not be FORCED to sell WHAT THEY have to buy something NEW. But I know a lot of people who do. I could buy Mario Party 7 and not have to sell Mario Party 5 and 6 to make the purchase. But little Timmy will probably have to.
Its kids and lower income people that feed the used market, and the sad thing is that they are last people from a moral standpoint who should be ripped off by Gamestop but THEY ARE.

WorknMan

11-08-2005, 11:23 AM

The primary reason for used games is because most people don't have the monetary resources not to sell their old stuff to get new stuff. A lot of the people on this board make enough scratch to not be FORCED to sell WHAT THEY have to buy something NEW. But I know a lot of people who do. I could buy Mario Party 7 and not have to sell Mario Party 5 and 6 to make the purchase. But little Timmy will probably have to.

These people would probably be better off buying used to begin with. I for one don't have to buy used if I don't want to, but I do. For example, I bought NFL 2K5 a few weeks ago ($20 new) for $6. It is a pretty cool game as far as football games go, at least as good as Madden '06, which probably goes for a small fortune.

Zaphod

11-08-2005, 11:34 AM

I think RAM is an even worse example than Bill's DVD player analogy. RAM has practical uses - it generally speeds up your computer and makes you more efficient at whatever it is you're doing. Contrast this with movies/games/etc that are strictly for entertainment purposes.

Strange. I remeber wanting more RAM because Marathon ran slow on my Mac back in the day, not so I could word process faster. For the most part RAM as an upgrade is for ententertainment purposes only. I have 256 mb on my home laptop, and while I might like some more to speed things up I deffinatly do not need it.

Darksol

11-08-2005, 12:04 PM

These people would probably be better off buying used to begin with. I for one don't have to buy used if I don't want to, but I do. For example, I bought NFL 2K5 a few weeks ago ($20 new) for $6. It is a pretty cool game as far as football games go, at least as good as Madden '06, which probably goes for a small fortune.

Now you're getting into that Need vs want argument again :) You'll always heading there for some reason. :)

Bill_Loguidice

11-08-2005, 12:08 PM

I've been trumpeting games as luxuries versus necessities forever. It's why I don't believe in piracy on modern consoles or handhelds. It's not going to kill you to save up the money to legitimitely buy a game at an eventual price you believe is fair. "Zero", however, is not a price point.

It's also ridiculous to ridicule paying X number of dollars for a game that someone is willing to pay for. Again, if I want to pay $50 for a game, that's my right as I determined it's worth that amount of money to me. If not, I really don't buy it. It's that simple. That's what we're all really saying here.

DVD players, RAM, a videogame, yes, it's all the same thing in this argument. You pay x number of dollars for x amount of usage. You either delay the enjoyment to save money or you don't and save time. It's a fair trade. I realize if this happens you have other, more important issues on the table, but you could get killed tomorrow and never have played that game you really wanted to play because you were waiting for a price drop that just didn't happen in a timely manner. Time IS precious and we should enjoy every moment of it whenever possible. If the game is not important enough to have now, then it's easy to wait and pay less.

It's like me telling someone what system to like or not like. It's none of my business. I've done that when I was a teenager and younger and it never ended well. I can advise, surely, but never dictate, never forcing my beliefs or needs on someone else. Everyone is different and every situation is different, and that's important to remember, even with something like videogames. My biases, ethics and beliefs are not the same as someone elses. And you know what, mine could also be wrong and I wouldn't know it, just like you wouldn't know it.

WorknMan

11-08-2005, 01:59 PM

It's also ridiculous to ridicule paying X number of dollars for a game that someone is willing to pay for. Again, if I want to pay $50 for a game, that's my right as I determined it's worth that amount of money to me. If not, I really don't buy it. It's that simple. That's what we're all really saying here.

Hey, if you want to pay $50 for a game, be my guest. Though I may not consider it a wise thing to do personally, I can only choose for myself. The reason I ridicule people who pay that much is because if they didn't, we could all buy games brand new for $30. One day, soceity will wake up to this fact and realize that we are able to pretty much set any price point we choose, so long as the producer can sell it at that price and still make a profit. For example, we don't have to sit and wait to find out how much EA is going to charge for the next Madden iteration. We could tell them exactly how much they'll charge for it. 'Oh, the 2007 release has only these new features? Umm, that's an expansion disc - $10 is what we'll pay.'
How does $10 per DVD sound to everyone? Maybe we'll give 'em $15 if they throw in a disc 2 with an assload of extras.

It's a fair trade. I realize if this happens you have other, more important issues on the table, but you could get killed tomorrow and never have played that game you really wanted to play because you were waiting for a price drop that just didn't happen in a timely manner. Time IS precious and we should enjoy every moment of it whenever possible.

Ahhh, that's sound logic there, Bill. 'Go out and buy that overpriced game today because you could keel over and die tomorrow.' Are you a marketer by any chance ? :) Reminds me back in 2001 when we were told 'Go out and buy some jewelery and a brand new car. Otherwise, the terrorists win.'

Darksol

11-08-2005, 02:04 PM

Ahhh, that's sound logic there, Bill. 'Go out and buy that overpriced game today because you could keel over and die tomorrow.' Are you a marketer by any chance ? :) Reminds me back in 2001 when we were told 'Go out and buy some jewelery and a brand new car. Otherwise, the terrorists win.'

The two comments aren't comparable. The time is valuable statement is just a plain fact. The statement you mentioned above is just manipulation of people to keep spending money to keep the economy afloat.

Bill_Loguidice

11-08-2005, 02:13 PM

But again "WorknMan", just because YOU think $50 is too much for a game or $20 for a DVD is too much, doesn't necessarily make it so. There are many factors involved to make a superficial "if we all stopped paying them" statement hold true. Perhaps if these game producers DIDN'T move units at $50 for a period of time before the price dropped to $30, profits would go down so much that they wouldn't be able to make the next game. Again, the prices are what the market will bare, so they have not been deemed "wrong". Certainly, the lower the price the better, but you reach the point of diminishing returns after a while. To change that, you'd have to change more than prices of games and DVD's, you'd have to change the way the whole economic system works.

WorknMan

11-08-2005, 02:48 PM

There are many factors involved to make a superficial "if we all stopped paying them" statement hold true. Perhaps if these game producers DIDN'T move units at $50 for a period of time before the price dropped to $30, profits would go down so much that they wouldn't be able to make the next game.

Alright, so they just can't sell them for $30 and stay in business. Ok then, they can sell them for $35. The point being, they're going to have to explain to consumers how they justify charging $50 for a game, especially ones that have only a handful of tweaks from last year's version. You say that $50 is not too much for a game. Which would you rather pay - $50 or $30?

Certainly, the lower the price the better, but you reach the point of diminishing returns after a while. To change that, you'd have to change more than prices of games and DVD's, you'd have to change the way the whole economic system works.

Actually, it makes the economy work like it's supposed to. When consumers put their foot down and say "We will no longer pay $150 for a pair of shoes that was made by a kid in a third world country for chump change", that kind of puts things back into balance.

Galaga will never die

11-08-2005, 10:37 PM

Damn, I just noticed your avatar is Electroplankton. Damn, I'm slow ...

lol, that's classic... because it even contains the word "electroplankton" written in full view on it (for over 6 months!) :D

great game btw, a real shame Nintendo don't have the will to release it to North American retail stores. Wonder if the same will happen to the more innovative Revolution titles too....

Demolition Man

12-05-2005, 11:31 PM

I hope I am not the only one who smells SPAM all over that last post.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

12-06-2005, 01:58 AM

A w e s o m e !

W O W, F A N T A S T I C!

http://www.getsomefreestuffthatsnotactuallyfreeandpickups omespywarewhileyouratit.com

Flare

12-06-2005, 06:40 AM

We'll keep an eye out for Helene2496... there's no SPAM link in that post, so it might just be someone who's really excited about the forum.

sci

12-06-2005, 08:57 AM

and maybe she's hot and smells good!

Flare

12-06-2005, 09:00 AM

and maybe she's hot and smells good!Yeah, like JamesB (http://www.monroeworld.com/forums/member.php?u=753)'s avatar

Demolition Man

12-06-2005, 11:55 AM

We'll keep an eye out for Helene2496... there's no SPAM link in that post, so it might just be someone who's really excited about the forum.

Its more of the signature being spam rather than the post itself.

(And the post having NO content or anything useful.... more like a random dump post in a random thread just to spam that "free" iPod site)

Flare

12-06-2005, 11:57 AM

Its more of the signature being spam rather than the post itself.

(And the post having NO content or anything useful.... more like a random dump post in a random thread just to spam that "free" iPod site)Ah! son of a bitch! I don't have signatures active so I didn't notice this. Off she goes.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

05-26-2006, 11:26 AM

http://locoroco.com/index.html?locale=en_GB

Flash Demo of Loco Roco on the official site.

There you go, I don't have to buy one now.

Yes I know.

Womp

05-26-2006, 11:47 AM

nukinetix

05-26-2006, 12:28 PM

B_Rik_Schitthaus

05-26-2006, 12:53 PM

So if you have a DS emulator on your PC you won't bother buying an actual DS game either? :)

Try playing Trauma Center with the mouse.

The point of having a great, instantly accessible and fun portable game is so that you can enjoy it anywhere you go.

(then again, maybe I missed the sarcasm :) )

Yep you did, I've been talking this game up since it appeared often jokingly insinuating that this is one of the few reasons to get a PSP. Now that I have 'a version' there's now no reason to get a PSP hahaha, lol, rofl and so forth.

Piconjo

05-26-2006, 01:00 PM

Is this thing using some type of gyro cart Ala Warioware:Twisted? If not then using the PSP keypads to play this game would suck as using the keyboard keys alone was gah. I was interested to see what all the fuss was about this game though, now I am no longer interested...Cute graphics...But nothing really exciting.

:::Shrugs:::

You use the Shoulder buttons (here's a question where would the Gyro go :confused: )

Curious isn't it how one of the best PSP games uses the most simple of controls there's a clue in there somewhere Sony.

Womp

05-26-2006, 01:06 PM

Surely you must be joking!

That's like saying: "Does Mario Kart use the touch screen or at least a nice analog stick? If not then using the d-pad would suck ... cute graphics but nothing really exciting"

Dude ... I dont' know, maybe this isn't your cup of tea ... I don't know really. But personal preference aside, to dismiss it as "gah", as not being unique and fun, that's just silly.

I will assume that you were not quite joking. I will also assume that the flash demo is reasonably complete and accurate.

So if you have a DS emulator on your PC you won't bother buying an actual DS game either? :)

The point of having a great, instantly accessible and fun portable game is so that you can enjoy it anywhere you go.

(then again, maybe I missed the sarcasm :) )

I've actually read that this "Demo" is horribly misleading and that the actual game is MUCH better, but this still doesn't really make THIS any better. I could see this harming what people intend it could be. But the way the game is played seems to require a bit of attuned accuracy and all I am saying is, it'd be totally kick ass if it used some type of gyro sensor to give it that tactile feel. I haven't played the actual full game but that flash demo wasn't exactly "All that". This has nothing to do with the DS/PSP, I was looking at it for what it was...A game albiet a blah flash demo OF. And in that respect, IMO, I thought it was a snooze...I don't care what platform or system its on. It looks beautiful though.

Womp

05-26-2006, 01:08 PM

You use the Shoulder buttons (here's a question where would the Gyro go :confused: )

Curious isn't it how one of the best PSP games uses the most simple of controls there's a clue in there somewhere Sony.

Thats cool...I figured much. I don't know where it would go but the PSP has other little ports on it...I was just speaking off the top of my head based on how cool other games that used a similar style of gameplay pulled it off and how if it could be applied to this would be swell. :)

Shane R. Monroe

05-26-2006, 01:15 PM

B_Rik_Schitthaus

05-26-2006, 01:36 PM

Didn't we see a PC game like this awhile ago featuring a similar blob? It was really popular so I'm not surprised to see it come to a handheld.

Honestly, this game could own with a gyro. Without it, it is just a platformer variant. Cmon Sony .... you've stolen fizzy lifting drinks once ... we'll let a second offense slide.

I never played it myself but was that game Gish (http://www.chroniclogic.com/~gishgame/index.htm)?

I still like the look and idea of Loco Roco but at £179.99 to play one game its a no deal at the moment.

Shane R. Monroe

05-26-2006, 01:47 PM

Yeah, that's it...

Danny

05-26-2006, 02:15 PM

There are other good games on the PSP you know guys... I mean me and my katamari is just killer! :) (saying that though if you are low on funds from buying crap loads of DS stuff then you might wanna wait for a while heh.)

Yeah I agree though the PSP is a bit expensive specialy if you just want to use it for playing games on it like me. Without all those fancy features I reckon it would be considerbley cheaper. Perhaps Sony should do a PSP "lite" with all of the non-gaming features taken out and have a system made just for playing games but at a cheaper price? (but then they would not sell many of the orignal PSP's if they did that heh.)

BJWanlund

05-27-2006, 04:50 AM

PSP "lite" is a bad idea. What Sony needs to do is knock the price down CONSIDERABLY on the ACTUAL SYSTEM. I am not going to re-purchase the PSP unless it goes below $100 (the amount I was paid for mine).

BJ

Womp

05-27-2006, 05:29 AM

I have absolutely no problems with the PSP on a whole, I think its a cool although unfocused little system...Only 3 points stop me from getting one:

1) Lack of games that interest me. There are only about 4 titles TOTAL I'd be PERSONALLY interested in....Which leads to point #...

...2) The price of the system and the games in question as a worthwhile investment/purchase.

3) I already own a portable gaming system, the Nintendo DS, and it consumes all my managable free time already. Any free game time I have is on my DS and I barely have time to keep up with ITS games, much less another system's. I still haven't even finished New SMB, but I am anal and am unlocking everything I can as I go. :)

It took me months to get a DS originally as it was, at first NEITHER system interested me, its about the GAMES folks and the DS library is just more delicious looking to me.

Hell, if I was going to buy a second handheld I'd just assume buy a GP2x over a PSP anyway.

nukinetix

05-27-2006, 05:32 AM

I think they should re-release the PSP, yes. Getting rid of UMD would be nice if they could switch to a digital distribution model (not onyl would the device be cheaper but games at half price, or less, too!). If that is not possible practically right now then they should improve the UMD mechanism's design and reduce production costs, reduce the average price of UMD games, improve the analog stick and the d-pad, make the screen a touch screen, and sell it for the same price as the DS Lite or within a £20 range.

Shane R. Monroe

05-27-2006, 10:18 AM

So in other words, COMPLETELY change it from what it is today.

nukinetix

05-27-2006, 11:49 AM

Not at all. Where did you get that conclusion from? What I suggested would affect less than 5% of the device. 95% of the actual technology would remain intact. All that would change is the "user interface", i.e. the way the capabilities are presented to the user.

Shane R. Monroe

05-27-2006, 01:29 PM

Let's see ... no more games discs. Check. DRM digital downloads vice ownership. Check. Duplicate the success of Nintendo (why not, seems their mantra these days) and change the input to touch screen. Check. Remove its stigma as a high end fad device by making it price competitive. Check.

Maybe add another screen too - might as well go all the way. No wait, need room for the camera and GPS device.</sarcasm>

Oh, and changing a user's interface is a tad more than 5% ... Look at DOS vs Windows. Nuff said.

SO yeah .... changing it pretty much entirely from what it is today.

nukinetix

05-27-2006, 01:46 PM

What are you talking about again?

Read carefully: The technology would remain unchanged.

Digital downloads requires ZERO change in technology; it is simply a shift in emphasis, but only for content DELIVERY (ownership or not - that's a business and/or political issue, not a technological one; you can have digital delivery AND ownership, why not?). Hence NO change.

Add a touch-screen layer without changing ANYTHING else: trivial. It requires a tiny amount of technological change, in fact compared to the totality of what makes the PSP it would be far less than a 5% worth of change. It is, however, clearly a change in terms of UI (literally, User Interface = the way the user can interact with the EXISTING technology; Sony has a dozen handheld devices in the market that use touch screens as an integral part of their interactive UI).

Price drop: natural consequence of optimising production, minimising costs and getting rid of the UMD. No change dude, in fact this is something that is typically EXPECTED to happen over the lifecycle of any such product.

Add another screen? I don't think so - why add another PHYSICAL panel when you have enough pixel resolution to do it in more flexible ways? Again, a simple thing that would mean ZERO technological change; it's a UI design decision and the option for consciously using 2 separate UI panels is always there anyway.

I haven't said anything profound here, and I don't understand how you missed my point entirely. I still think what I suggested is a great idea and very simple for Sony to do (should they decide to).

DaMenace

05-28-2006, 05:29 PM

Hold on a sec here..
What kind of changes would we be looking at in a new PSP from the old PSP here?
If you're talking cosmetic changes, like the DS Lite is, that'd be no big deal..
But if you're talking about changing that screen into a touch screen on the PSP.. ho boy you're going to have some mighty upset PSP customers questioning their loyalty / fanboyism here... They'd probably be returning all that old PSP hardware in for the newer models... it'd be a significant upgrade but are people up for that?
It's almost like buying the 32x/SegaCD addons for Sega Genesis then suddenly needing to get the Saturn all over again..
Would they implement touch based gameplay in the future games for the PSP then? Or games that required it? Iffy!

nukinetix

05-28-2006, 05:36 PM

I described the changes in my previous post. Adding a "touch screen" layer is very easy and requires no technological changes.

Calling it PSP Lite - especially if UMD is dropped - would result in not necessarilly targetting the exact same demographic as the original PSP. Some people might consider it a downgrade and prefer to stick with their original PSPs. If that's how they see it, that's fine!

From a production point of view it would require little change.

From a cost point of view it'd be a win-win situation for both Sony and the consumers. Sony are now realising that the UMD has bombed and the situation is irreversible - they ain't making big money out of UMD movies, not now not ever. Smart companies adjust.

The way I see it, the same technology would suddenly become appealing to a much larger demographic that is currently not tapped by the original PSP - and this at zero R&D cost. So why not ?

yuckymucky

05-28-2006, 11:12 PM

Well seeings as this is becoming the PSP thread I thought that I would post it up. PSP mod chip will start selling soon.

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=7493

btribble

05-29-2006, 01:52 AM

I described the changes in my previous post. Adding a "touch screen" layer is very easy and requires no technological changes.

I think what people are saying is that software that would support a touch screen would be completely incompatible with the old version of the system. So it would probably have to be labeled specially or sold in a different box. Wait, actually that would be the same as having a completely new system! Everyone who previously had a PSP would have to buy it again if they wanted to play any new games.

Compare with DS and DS Lite, GBA and GBA SP, Lynx and Lynx v2. Any game can be played on either version system. That's how any changes to the PSP would have to be as well. Otherwise, it's just a new console.

Darksol

05-29-2006, 07:44 AM

Well seeings as this is becoming the PSP thread I thought that I would post it up. PSP mod chip will start selling soon.

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=7493

Oh good. Finally a reason to go get one :). The PSP as an emulation platform looks really good.

nukinetix

05-29-2006, 08:53 AM

I think what people are saying is that software that would support a touch screen would be completely incompatible with the old version of the system. So it would probably have to be labeled specially or sold in a different box. Wait, actually that would be the same as having a completely new system! Everyone who previously had a PSP would have to buy it again if they wanted to play any new games.

Compare with DS and DS Lite, GBA and GBA SP, Lynx and Lynx v2. Any game can be played on either version system. That's how any changes to the PSP would have to be as well. Otherwise, it's just a new console.I never used - confirmed or denied - the term "new console".

What I said was that it would require less than 5% of technological change, i.e. that 95% of the machine would remain intact.

It goes without saying that if, for instance, you can't play UMD games (because it doesn't support UMD in the first place) that would rule out all current UMD games - at least without them being adapted for a different method of delivery. In a similar manner, software that uses the touch-screen layer would be incompatible with the original PSP.

It would be a different "product", but not a much different piece of technology. The emphasis in my post was that it would be quick and effortless for Sony to do so - no additional technology, no R&D costs, nothing like that - and it would allow them to tap into a different demographic with an extremely appealing, low-cost product.

Win-Win situation.

Shane R. Monroe

05-29-2006, 10:32 AM

Sweet. Now let's get the PSP price down so I can get one :)

Bloodcat

05-30-2006, 07:32 PM

Womp

05-31-2006, 05:51 AM

Non value pack versions of the PSP are 200 bucks now. Probably just the system and charger then, and no softcase and memory stick.

But if you are gonna use it for emulation or an oversized inefficient iPod, you would be dropping at least 50 bucks for a 512 meg anyhow. (or cheaper depending on where you get it and what brand)

Which is why I'd rather have a GP2x which is cheaper anyway. The PSP emulation scene has been rather dead of late and the GP2x seems to have things down a lot nicer these days and can use cheaper media to boot.

2 gig SD card for the win.

B_Rik_Schitthaus

05-31-2006, 01:55 PM

http://www.fox9.com/news/investigators/story.asp?1653685

What mom thought was just a game is actually a very sophisticated piece of electronics that a clever kid can use to capture pornographic images out of thin air. In the school's library, Jeff was eager to show his friends his new Sony Play Station Portable, or PSP. On a dare, Jeff showed his pals how the PSP could magically display images of naked women.

A clever kid, omfg yeah you have to be a really 733t haxx0r to do this.

Do you guys have to put up with this crap every day?

At least we get Natasha Kaplinsky.

Bill_Loguidice

05-31-2006, 02:02 PM

This is the best line, " But David Walsh of the National Institute on Media and the Family, says game makers have a responsibility too. They should let parents know that their product could give a kid easy access to pornography. "

Tell me what device with a display DOESN'T give easy access to pornography?

Womp

06-01-2006, 05:20 AM

horprodukt

06-01-2006, 06:53 AM

The PSP emulation scene has been rather dead of late

I think the PSP emulation scene is still ticking over nicely....... only last month the BBC Micro computer and MGT Sam Coupe emulators were added to the list.
Just before that the Amstrad and the Nintendo 64 (though this needs work).

Here's a llist of current emulators. Some work pretty much perfect, with save states, frame rate skip options, etc, like the SNES, Genesis/Megadrive, PC Engine/Turbo Grafx ....... but some have games that are a bit buggy. The C64 emulator runs well for example, with something like Bruce Lee, but other favourite games just hang.

It's a mixed bag.

Full list:
Amiga 500
Amstrad CPC
Apple II
Atari
BBC Micro computer
Capcom Play System 1
Chip 8
ColecoVision
Commodore 64
Gameboy & Gameboy Color
Gameboy Advance
HitBit
HP48
Macintosh
MAME
MGT Sam Coupé
MSX
Neo Geo
Nintendo 64
Nintendo NES
Odyssey
PC-9801
PlayStation
PSP
ScummVM
Sega Gamegear & Master System
Sega Genesis Megadrive
Super Nintendo SNES
TI-92
Turbo Grafx 16 & PC Engine
Vectrex
Wonderswan
X86
ZX Spectrum

Womp

06-01-2006, 07:39 AM

Yeah there are plenty OF emulators around for it but the peeps behind the emulators themselves don't seem to be as busy as they used to be with updates.

It just doesn't seem to be the fired up community that it was and that the GP2x has now.

horprodukt

06-01-2006, 08:03 AM

I'm really tempted by the GP2X even though i have good emulation on the PSP....... I want to meet someone with a GP2X so I can compare the 2 to see which one fairs best.........
............unless there's anyone on the forum who owns both a PSP and a GP2X who can let us know?

Shane R. Monroe

06-01-2006, 08:11 AM

The main advantages of the GP2x (I don't own a PSP, so this is comparing what I know from reading) are:

1) The GP2x was designed to run homebrew, the PSP is a pain in the ass. Apparently there are loaders, boot fakers, and all this weird crap you have to shuffle around and "stay up on" to keep emulation and commercial gaming running on the PSP. The PSP fanboys make light of it, but honestly, I wouldn't want that kinda BS when I want to hit the crapper and play Robotron.

2) Widescreen is great; for movies. but unless you're one of those weird people that like your emulation distorted to hell with stretch modes, the GP2x has the edge with proper screen orientation (4:3) for emulation. The size is right for MUCH of classic gaming with NO distortion in stretch. Even a lot of vertical games (like Shaolin's road) can be played unstretched because the only thing lost on the top and bottom are indicators you don't really need.

I believe, in the end, the Gp2x WILL see the better myriad of homebrew and emulation due to the sheer fact that Sony EVENTUALLY will find a way to make emulation so damn miserable, you won't WANT to do it.

On the other hand, PSP is apparently getting a mod chip to allow "easier" homebrew, but I found the article a bit ... more complicated than standard mods. It doesn't appear to be "Install the mod chip, play anything" ... more like "This mod chip makes it easier to change loaders". Well, dammit....

nazzar

06-01-2006, 08:28 AM

I intend to get a gp2x sometime it looks pretty cool.....thats another thing on my wanted list.

nukinetix

06-01-2006, 09:12 AM

Nice list.

How many of these emulators are currently not really that usable, would you say?

How many of them are almost perfect?

Shane R. Monroe

06-01-2006, 09:34 AM

I've seen a similar list for both DS and GP2x - and 90% (guesstimate) are .0001 versions that BARELY work (if at all - usually running 1 game at 5 fps).

I'd be interested too, in a better definition of that list.

horprodukt

06-01-2006, 09:43 AM

Nice list.

How many of these emulators are currently not really that usable, would you say?

How many of them are almost perfect?

I've not tried all the available emulators yet, but so far out of the one's i've tried......

Amstrad - good.

Atari Lynx - good.

C64 - works with about 50% of games i tried.

Neo Geo - Could never get this going. Complicated rom folder set up.

PC Engine/Turbo Grafix - Excellent.

Genesis/Megadrive - Excellent.

Super Nintendo SNES - Excellent.

ZX Spectrum - Got a main emulator screen, couldn't get a rom working.

I'd never played a PC Engine/Turbo Grafix Before, and discovering all the fantastic shoot em ups on there is keeping me busy. I'll try and test some more emulators when i get time.

nukinetix

06-01-2006, 09:50 AM

You do realise that this sounds thoroughly ... unimpressive!

It sounds like even the GP32 (GP2X's ancestor) is probably a better choice when it comes to emulation.

horprodukt

06-01-2006, 09:55 AM

As for frame rates on the PSP emulators i tried - PC engine/Turbo Grafix is great.
Genesis great too.
With the SNES good, though some games chug that use Mode 7. I then use the frame skip function that works on some games, and makes them playable, but any of the 3D SNES games like Starfox aren't playable.
The C64 frame rate is also good - it's just the amount of games that run that's the problem.

horprodukt

06-01-2006, 09:58 AM

Can anyone do a similar list of GP2X emulators and list the ones that run well?

Shane R. Monroe

06-01-2006, 10:01 AM

The best I got is in this thread (http://www.monroeworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4878).

You can check the file archive (http://www.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,5) for a much bigger list.

You can see PCE emulation on the GP2x here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2366245939209311171). I recorded this for Womp. Goggle really trashes video quality when they post this stuff.

Womp

06-01-2006, 10:06 AM

If I had Miyamoto's bankroll these days, I'd be playing a GP2x along with my DS just for that incredible PCE emulation Shane made a video of for me.

I was owned proper.

nukinetix

06-01-2006, 01:55 PM

PCE emulation was great even on the GP32. I've been playing emulated PCE games "on the go" for years now :D

B_Rik_Schitthaus

06-04-2006, 12:40 AM

http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6152212/index.html?sid=6152212

Gamespot feature, the PSP 1 year on.

Make of it what you will.

Click on watch it now for the video, it made me laugh seeing it also available in PSP video format considering what some of them said.

bryanmake2

06-05-2006, 03:32 PM

Anyone have a figure on the ds vs psp sales?

Im assuming the ds has a large lead in sales, but im looking for a figure.
someone hook me up!

nukinetix

06-06-2006, 06:11 AM

Why are you interested in sales figures?

This may have nothing to do with your question (I don't know why you're asking) but let me rant a bit: Popularity has never been an indication of quality or correctness. Comparing sales is as pointless as comparing polygon counts.

bryanmake2

06-06-2006, 06:21 AM

Just for jamcats sake, i would like to know. I dont like him, i would like to prove him wrong. =)

nukinetix

06-06-2006, 06:37 AM

Prove him wrong ... about what, and how ?

He just doesn't like the DS (I doubt he likes the PSP either!); it's his opinion and there's nothing more to say about it. It's just an opinion! Sales stats neither change opinions nor do they prove any point - one way or another!

Just don't waste your time debating the undebatable, is my advice.

Shane R. Monroe

06-06-2006, 07:57 AM

The last figure I saw was:

DS **SOLD** 16M
PSP **SHIPPED** 12M (what's the percentages on sell through? 80% tops?)

nukinetix

06-06-2006, 08:15 AM

It's really hard to tell, but according to SCEA it's over 15 million units sold:

$199 Sony PSP Announced
Wednesday, 15 March 2006

As global sales of the Sony PSP reach 15 million, SCEA (Sony Computer Entertainment America) have announced a new hardware package for the US / European market. Retailing at at just $199 US / $229.99 CND, the new "base unit" comes bundled with just an AC adaptor and battery, removing bonus features included with the Value Pack. The new PSP package, which is available from the 22nd of March the cheapest way to purchase a new PSP.

The Japanese market is not left out, with the popular "Ceramic White" being shipped in similar guise at 19,800 yen (around $170 US / $200 CND / £99 GBP).

Also announced were plans to release an add-on USB camera and GPS receiver. News of a USB camera for the PSP comes after news of the rumoured 'PSP2' with integrated camera, however Ken Kutargi, Head of Video Games at Sony, said the add-on camera, allowing VOIP chat, will ship in September.Ok .. so now what do these numbers tell us ??

Uh ... nothing!

Ok, let me use another rather extreme example: consider the GP32 or GP2X's figures. What do they tell us ?? Exactly, nothing at all in terms of why I want to have one or why it's so great for my needs!

B_Rik_Schitthaus

06-06-2006, 08:20 AM

but according to SCEA it's over 15 million units sold

B***ocks,

They havn't overtaken the DS is any territory and in Japan its somthing silly like 8.4 million DS units (edit- oops) and 3:1 to the DS.

Oh crap here comes nuki, bail out.

http://www.freefalluniversity.co.uk/images/news/expand.jpg

nukinetix

06-06-2006, 10:45 AM

This discussion can go from being completely pointless to being downright retarded.

Are we going to start debating which numbers are real and which are not ?

Might as well make up our own completely made up figures and start debating they are actually true, then! There's no end to this sort of retardation.

And at the end of it all, start wondering all over again: what exactly is the point of it, in the first place ? Why would a gamer (not a company rep) ever engage in debates that become popularity-penis comparison contests, and not in meaningful discussions of specific games and their pros and cons ?

B_Rik_Schitthaus

07-26-2006, 10:05 AM

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/26/joystiq-interviews-sony-psps-john-koller/

Joystick interview with the PSP's senior product manager Alistair Campbell

Shane R. Monroe

07-26-2006, 10:48 AM

Darksol

07-26-2006, 11:18 AM

Jesus ... I just wet my pants ... one of the reader comments from this article:

Seriously, the last few interviews I've read with Sony people have all be like this one. This "Nothing is wrong, everything is fine! FINE!" is kind of reminds me of the story of the band playing on the Titanic. Just about every news source I can think of is looking at Sony's current situation with the kind of expression you look at your best friend when he's had WAY too much to drink and is being led around the party by a fat chick. That "Uh, are you sure you're okay, dude?" look.

BAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA! Owned. Operated. Locally.

Actually the article's excerpt should have been
Just about every news source I can think of is looking at Sony's current situation with the kind of expression you look at your best friend when he's had WAY too much to drink and is being led around the party by a fat chick who is really a guy and you wake up and your butt is sore! [no judgements, just making party conversation :)!][/I]

B_Rik_Schitthaus

08-11-2006, 05:25 AM

EA goes cold on the PSP (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3617&Itemid=2)

EA's head of development David Gardner has warned Sony to pick up its act in the handheld war against Nintendo DS.
Image The firm's VP and COO of worldwide studios told UK trade paper MCV, "I don't think Sony can afford to sit back. They still have things they can do with the price and performance of the machine, things that they need to address."

EA says it has shifted its handheld priorities since DS began pulling away from PSP. "There's no doubt that EA has historically bet more on PSP," said Garner. "I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.

"We must never forget that what we need to focus on is fun and so EA is putting more effort behind DS games, and creative ones that really take advantage of the hardware.

ROFLCOPTER time?

Womp

08-11-2006, 07:11 AM

EA says it has shifted its handheld priorities since DS began pulling away from PSP. "There's no doubt that EA has historically bet more on PSP," said Garner. "I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.

"We must never forget that what we need to focus on is fun and so EA is putting more effort behind DS games, and creative ones that really take advantage of the hardware.

Wait I'm confused...So...Um...Like...WHAT were EA actually focusing on BEFORE they just came to this amazing realization that gamers were looking for fun in a game? Does this idiot realize he just basically said that EA doesn't make creative, fun games? No wait...He's right! WTF did EA THINK gamers wanted in a game? Talk about totally losing any common sense for their market.

No wonder EA's only good DS title is FIFA 06. And pulling away from the PSP? I wouldn't say the PSP was exactly ever slaughtering the DS in sales, in the US its been pretty even. As a matter of fact...These are some July hardware numbers from Gaming-Age Forums:

July Hardware Sales

NDS = 377,000
PS2 = 241,000
360 = 206,000
GBA = 163,000
PSP = 161,000
GCN = 44,000
Xbox = 12,000

I take that back, DS is owning the PSP in the US now as well!! Not only that, there are 0 PSP games in the top 25 listing for software where in turn New SMB is in the #3 spot. :D

Anyway on another note, this thread needs more Trip Hawkins...COME BACK TO US!!

http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/feud091.jpg